The hard part of flying.
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 29
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From: UK
The hard part of flying.
Recently I have passed my skills test at the age of 17. I'm still studying for my A-levels. But the hard part of flying is how to afford it. Ive got a Saturday job working in a restaurant, and I am wondering whether anybody could help me with any Ideas of getting cheaper hours, without joining groups having to put thousands of pounds up front. Any Ideas?
Thanks Joe.
Thanks Joe.
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 29
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From: UK
Thanks for your fast reply, Doesn't sound like a good Idea. I'm currently based at sleap airfield. Really I am looking to be flying at least once every 2 weeks. Is there anyway I could find cheap hours? I would look into group but the joining fee is just too much.
Kind regards, Joe
Kind regards, Joe
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 519
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From: London
I'm in a similar situation as you. The options I've found so far are non-equity groups, (where you pay a monthly fee for insurance/ parking/ maintenance etc. and then between £50 - £100 per hour, depending on the aircraft) lease hire (check big red kite, £45 per hour dry for a 152), and going abroad.
Maybe your best bet would be to save up and take a few holidays a year to places where you can hire cheaply. It depends on how often you would like to fly. Otherwise maybe check if there are any local non-equity groups available.
Maybe your best bet would be to save up and take a few holidays a year to places where you can hire cheaply. It depends on how often you would like to fly. Otherwise maybe check if there are any local non-equity groups available.
Fleet Manager
Joined: Aug 2006
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 7,090
Likes: 2,952
From: Ontario, Canada
Let me try this again (the first time was deleted, though I don't know why)
Flying instruction involves the use of commercially registered aircraft, and people whom you have to pay. There really is not much of a way around that.
Like many pilots who have gone before, I could not afford to fly much either. I hung around the airfield and offered to do any odd or otherwise undesireable job, for flying. Though riding along with someone else, probably won't enable logging hours, you do get the experience and exposure to other pilots and owners. This has the potential to get you into aircraft types you just can't rent. With this experience, you'll be much farther ahead when you get your license.
I spent a lot of my early days wet on my back, washing the bellys of four Aztecs and a C310. Over time, and in return, I got my multi rating, and type endorsements on those aircraft. I progressed to some time in a Cheyenne, but they had people to wash that!
I was recalling those days, as I lay on my back last night, scrubbing the belly of my plane. I was wondering, where are the keeners, who would ask if they could wash and wax my plane, in return for some flying. I'd happily take them in my clean plane!
Owners love to talk about their planes, warm them up with some conversation. You have lots you could gain, and very little to lose....
Be charming, proactive, and patient.
Flying instruction involves the use of commercially registered aircraft, and people whom you have to pay. There really is not much of a way around that.
Like many pilots who have gone before, I could not afford to fly much either. I hung around the airfield and offered to do any odd or otherwise undesireable job, for flying. Though riding along with someone else, probably won't enable logging hours, you do get the experience and exposure to other pilots and owners. This has the potential to get you into aircraft types you just can't rent. With this experience, you'll be much farther ahead when you get your license.
I spent a lot of my early days wet on my back, washing the bellys of four Aztecs and a C310. Over time, and in return, I got my multi rating, and type endorsements on those aircraft. I progressed to some time in a Cheyenne, but they had people to wash that!
I was recalling those days, as I lay on my back last night, scrubbing the belly of my plane. I was wondering, where are the keeners, who would ask if they could wash and wax my plane, in return for some flying. I'd happily take them in my clean plane!
Owners love to talk about their planes, warm them up with some conversation. You have lots you could gain, and very little to lose....
Be charming, proactive, and patient.
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
From: UK
Thanks, for your suggestions. I have had a look at big red kite, which looks very interesting. But I certainly do need to keep an eye out around the club. So far all I got is taking a C152 out for an hour and going 50/50 on it with a friend. ANy more suggestions.
Cheers Joe.
Cheers Joe.
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 940
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From: On the move
You need to do a tour of all the popular airfields as many of the cheaper otions are not advertised but can either be found on the boards or by word of mouth . As said above saving up and buying block hrs over seas is(was) by far the cheapest
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 231
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From: Birmingham
I got my PPL at 17, Part time job at sainsbury's, got around £245 a month from that, excluding overtime, Was enough to cover 2 hours over 4 weeks at my club, but restricted me from doing much else with my time which got frustrating after a while considering the amount of hours I was putting in for work, so was regularly running to the bank of mum and dad.
Frustrating stuff!
Cheers, Put
Frustrating stuff!
Cheers, Put
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 235
Likes: 4
From: Earth
I'm in the same situation as you Joe. I'm finding it very frustrating and am thinking of having a word down my club to ask if they will do a significant block-hour reduction as i'm trying to gain the 150 hours required to start the CPL. Does anyone know of any non-equity groups in the South-East region or any aircraft that fall under £95/hr? Would like to have a serious chat!
Lewis
Lewis
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 391
Likes: 0
From: Godzone
Let me try this again (the first time was deleted, though I don't know why)
Flying instruction involves the use of commercially registered aircraft, and people whom you have to pay. There really is not much of a way around that.
Like many pilots who have gone before, I could not afford to fly much either. I hung around the airfield and offered to do any odd or otherwise undesireable job, for flying. Though riding along with someone else, probably won't enable logging hours, you do get the experience and exposure to other pilots and owners. This has the potential to get you into aircraft types you just can't rent. With this experience, you'll be much farther ahead when you get your license.
I spent a lot of my early days wet on my back, washing the bellys of four Aztecs and a C310. Over time, and in return, I got my multi rating, and type endorsements on those aircraft. I progressed to some time in a Cheyenne, but they had people to wash that!
I was recalling those days, as I lay on my back last night, scrubbing the belly of my plane. I was wondering, where are the keeners, who would ask if they could wash and wax my plane, in return for some flying. I'd happily take them in my clean plane!
Owners love to talk about their planes, warm them up with some conversation. You have lots you could gain, and very little to lose....
Be charming, proactive, and patient.
Flying instruction involves the use of commercially registered aircraft, and people whom you have to pay. There really is not much of a way around that.
Like many pilots who have gone before, I could not afford to fly much either. I hung around the airfield and offered to do any odd or otherwise undesireable job, for flying. Though riding along with someone else, probably won't enable logging hours, you do get the experience and exposure to other pilots and owners. This has the potential to get you into aircraft types you just can't rent. With this experience, you'll be much farther ahead when you get your license.
I spent a lot of my early days wet on my back, washing the bellys of four Aztecs and a C310. Over time, and in return, I got my multi rating, and type endorsements on those aircraft. I progressed to some time in a Cheyenne, but they had people to wash that!
I was recalling those days, as I lay on my back last night, scrubbing the belly of my plane. I was wondering, where are the keeners, who would ask if they could wash and wax my plane, in return for some flying. I'd happily take them in my clean plane!
Owners love to talk about their planes, warm them up with some conversation. You have lots you could gain, and very little to lose....
Be charming, proactive, and patient.
some should watch Ice Pilots and see what traditional obtaining of flying skills and attitudes is all about - Buffalo Joe might be a hard man, but I'd suggest if one of his pilots turned up across the CV desk, they would be very seriously in contention.
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 48
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From: UK
Joe,
I was in exactly the same position as you about a year back. I went around all the local airfields scouting out odd jobs for free flying, and even asked to tow gliders (unsurprisingly they wanted more experience!); you don't ask, you don't get :-P
Eventually I stumbled across a fantastic value for money syndicate. Not advertised anywhere, but just came up in conversation. So happened I talked to the right person at the right time, and we exchanged certificates. So now, I'm flying a Cherokee for £35/hour dry, with a £30 monthly fee.
I'm working for every minute I fly, but I'd rather spend the money on flying than alcohol and any other expensive teenage whims!
I'm not sure to what extent you have been asking around, but throughout this thread there is strong advice to speak to whoever you can. I strongly advise you to do so, and you'll be pleasantly surprised how many people are willing to offer you advice and opportunities, in exchange for simple manners and as Pilot DAR says, charm.
Dead Side.
I was in exactly the same position as you about a year back. I went around all the local airfields scouting out odd jobs for free flying, and even asked to tow gliders (unsurprisingly they wanted more experience!); you don't ask, you don't get :-P
Eventually I stumbled across a fantastic value for money syndicate. Not advertised anywhere, but just came up in conversation. So happened I talked to the right person at the right time, and we exchanged certificates. So now, I'm flying a Cherokee for £35/hour dry, with a £30 monthly fee.
I'm working for every minute I fly, but I'd rather spend the money on flying than alcohol and any other expensive teenage whims!
I'm not sure to what extent you have been asking around, but throughout this thread there is strong advice to speak to whoever you can. I strongly advise you to do so, and you'll be pleasantly surprised how many people are willing to offer you advice and opportunities, in exchange for simple manners and as Pilot DAR says, charm.
Dead Side.
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
From: UK
Ahaaa you see toolowtoofast, I have been at my airfields asking for jobs, but there is already a member there who does all of the washing of the club aircraft and owners. Otherwise I would have jumped on it! I have also been watching Ice pilots recently, Incredibly interesting and I believe, that sort of flying we be amazing. At the end of the day I just want to be flying.
And for The dead Side, I've had a good look around my club, but I don't particularly intend to leave due to it being like a family. I fit in there, know all the members because I spend most of my weekends down there. Who knows.
Once again thanks for your Ideas, Joe
And for The dead Side, I've had a good look around my club, but I don't particularly intend to leave due to it being like a family. I fit in there, know all the members because I spend most of my weekends down there. Who knows.
Once again thanks for your Ideas, Joe
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,443
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From: Cambridge, England, EU
Recently I have passed my skills test at the age of 17
Joined: May 2007
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 1,647
Likes: 264
From: Dark side of the Moon
Joe, don't let people like Gertrude get you down. There's rude and begrudging people in every walk of life, and aviation is no exception.
Envy and jealousy are unpleasant characteristics.
FBW
Envy and jealousy are unpleasant characteristics.
FBW
Joined: Jul 2006
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 1,358
Likes: 125
From: Up yer nose, again.
Joe, don't let people like Gertrude get you down. There's rude and begrudging people in every walk of life, and aviation is no exception.
And they wonder why the older generation has little time for them.
Really? Did you need to say that, all I'm asking for is a bit more help from people who have more experience than me. Can we please just stick to the topic.
Fleet Manager
Joined: Aug 2006
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 7,090
Likes: 2,952
From: Ontario, Canada
A bit of thread drift (sorry Joe),
Having just done PPL groundschool a second time, 33 years, and 6000 hours later, I am stunned at the amount that there is to know about flying light aircraft (let alone jets), which just cannot be taught. The major reason for not teaching is obviously the total classroom time available - the course just cannot be able to take 300 hours. But, I also wonder how many groundschool instructors would not be able to teach the broader content if they had to (or correctly answer the odd question which was at the periphery of the core content).
Which takes me 'round to:
Unfortunately, yes.
Every job done well, involves starting at the beginning, laying a good foundation, and understanding the peripherals beyond the core task. Sweeping hangar floors, washing planes, pumping gas, and otherwise getting you hands dirty on non-flying tasks are all a part of this. Not so much because you need to know how to do them, but so those who can influence your future know that you can do them, and are willing.
So how does this relate to "the hard part of flying? The hard part is not only paying for it, but finding a path forward, which will carry you away from having to pay for it, as early in your career as possible.
Our industry's problem is that we're getting to the stage where many of those who are making the pilot hiring decisions, have themselves, never washed a plane, or swept a floor (even their own mess!).
So it's up to the new pilots to roll up their sleeves, andseek out the "hart work, to assure they have a good foundation. To prevent total thread drift, I will continue this in the "Attitudes vs Experience" thread, where it probably belongs.... Sorry Joe, new ideas...
Having just done PPL groundschool a second time, 33 years, and 6000 hours later, I am stunned at the amount that there is to know about flying light aircraft (let alone jets), which just cannot be taught. The major reason for not teaching is obviously the total classroom time available - the course just cannot be able to take 300 hours. But, I also wonder how many groundschool instructors would not be able to teach the broader content if they had to (or correctly answer the odd question which was at the periphery of the core content).
Which takes me 'round to:
students who aspire to be pilots can only see the shiny jet at the end
Every job done well, involves starting at the beginning, laying a good foundation, and understanding the peripherals beyond the core task. Sweeping hangar floors, washing planes, pumping gas, and otherwise getting you hands dirty on non-flying tasks are all a part of this. Not so much because you need to know how to do them, but so those who can influence your future know that you can do them, and are willing.
So how does this relate to "the hard part of flying? The hard part is not only paying for it, but finding a path forward, which will carry you away from having to pay for it, as early in your career as possible.
Our industry's problem is that we're getting to the stage where many of those who are making the pilot hiring decisions, have themselves, never washed a plane, or swept a floor (even their own mess!).
So it's up to the new pilots to roll up their sleeves, andseek out the "hart work, to assure they have a good foundation. To prevent total thread drift, I will continue this in the "Attitudes vs Experience" thread, where it probably belongs.... Sorry Joe, new ideas...