Volcanic ash cloud and Private / VFR flying (merged)

[Local Variation]

Genghis, exactly who was the ultimate decision maker for the UK ?

We had so many cooks and media whores thrust in our faces it was hard to distinguish who was doing what and what responsibility they had. Was it NATS/CAA/Met Off/Transport Ministry.

I guess you're going to say all of them........to some degree, arn't you !!

[airbourne]

Im very happy with myself. Got 2 touch and go's in a Robin on Tuesday into DUB. A few others were also doing the same, taking advantage of the closed airspace. Approach were nice and accommodating.

I made a little video of it.

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[bingoboy]

Hi Genghis, Do you not find it slightly odd that all the talking and meetings managed to come to a conclusion just as Willies finest were calling for landing? followed by adonis commenting that hindsight revealed probable overreactions.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I think that the ultimate decision was probably made by the head of SRG, on advice from her Head of Airworthiness, but dependent upon the right volcano forecasts from Met Office, confirmed by similar forecast outputs from Universities and the US.

Since all the main airlines were dialled into the decision process, they'll have known of the decision a few hours before it was made official.

G

[rmac]

I could believe that Genghis, except that both Lady Aphrodite and wee Willie (or maybe we should call him Big Balled Willie now) were visibly stressed and shaken when they were interviewed by the press directly after the meeting, not something which indicates a peaceful meeting according to a pre-notified plan...

[Droopystop]

Gasax

Well anyone who does real risk assessment would quickly work out that several hundred body bags is actually a good return for wasting £1.7B from the airlines and almost certainly that much again from the general population.

I quite agree that in this day and age an aircraft full of people is not worth that much (although I am sure our families are worth far more). However, if they kept flying and there was a crash, they would stop flying and still incur that £1.7bn bill. Moreover following such an accident there would be the usual overly extreme knee jerk reaction that would not have resulted in the sensible state of play we have now.

I have to say I am torn with this ash issue. I was "stranded" for a few days, both as pilot and a passenger. On the one hand we have the "we don't know, but we reckon that ICAO say no so no flying", on the other we have the "Russian Roulette" approach to safety management. Both are equally inappropriate in this day and age.

Sadly it seems that other parts of the world have a sensible solution to this, whereas Europe has stuck it's head in the bureaucratic sand. Airline and Air Operators do have sway with the regulators and many initiatives that make offshore helicopter flying safer have been made by the helicopter operators. Regulators write the rules, operators have to either work around them or prove that there is a better way. It seems that airlines have missed a trick here and not got involved with the threats posed by volcanoes and more particularly the bureaucracy surrounding them.

We as passengers will end up paying for this in increased fares and increased airspace charges for pilots.

[mm_flynn]

Originally Posted by Droopystop

I have to say I am torn with this ash issue. I was "stranded" for a few days, both as pilot and a passenger. On the one hand we have the "we don't know, but we reckon that ICAO say no so no flying", on the other we have the "Russian Roulette" approach to safety management. Both are equally inappropriate in this day and age.

With hindsight we can probably say

1. The ICAO documents that Europe built their response on don't at any point appear to define what an ash cloud is. However, they clearly do not require a zero ash content (that would shut down aviation as there is always a non-zero amount of ash in the air)
2. Europe coose to implement an initial policy based on a forecast possibility of ash being present (although these forecast all clearly state that the density is unknown). This is somewhat like treating the metoffice 'there could be ice in clouds below 0' routine statement as banning flight in spam cans whenever there is the possibility of a cloud above the freezing level.
3. There doesn't appear to be a single instance of an immediate flight safety incident attributable to ash densities insufficient to show as haze/cloud/St Elmo's fire. (Note - The NASA DC 8 crew had noticed they couldn't see the stars so they were in or under a layer of visually opaque 'cloud'.
4. There are a number of incidents where crew could not tell the difference between a water and ash cloud or at night unable to see the cloud.
5. Operators that frequently encounter ash conditions seem to have a policy of no IMC and no night when ash is forecast (as the crew won't be able to see the ash)

So it seems a more sensible approach would have been to require operations clear of cloud and during daylight. This would have caused some disruption but not anything like the closure of the airspace for 6 days.

[IO540]

So it seems a more sensible approach would have been to require operations clear of cloud and during daylight. This would have caused some disruption but not anything like the closure of the airspace for 6 days.

Very much agree. But it takes a pilot to think of that. Today, 99% of people running the show have never flown anything.

I have still not found any ash on my air filter, or anywhere else.

[Flying Lawyer]

While sat in the US, one thing that did occur to me was if I was home and flying in my PA28, would Heathrow let you do a low approach and go around during the airspace closure?

A mate of mine thought Gatwick let some light planes do this.

Any similar stories on some interesting flying I have missed?

Some pictures I was sent which were taken last Saturday when a balbo of 13 aircraft from the Tiger Club visited LGW.





















Good to see ACDC still going strong - 77th birthday earlier this year.
And AWEF will be 63 this year. My favourite of the Stampes - many happy hours doing aeros in her.

It seems the old fun spirit of the Tiger Club lives on.