If you were lost would you say so??
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<<I took off into fading light (I got chatting for too long at the departure airfield) and my 12 minute hop from Elstree to Denham ended up with me in the Heathrow TMA in darkness >>
Did you really mean the London TMA or the London Control Zone?
Did you really mean the London TMA or the London Control Zone?
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I didnt mean any offence FBW and I didn't utter a word until you yourself presumably corrected the mistake (perhaps after someone esle had mentioned it,) and I did post a smilie; but sorry for mentioning it anyway...
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Asking for help too late
Perhaps this is relevant here - I posted this earlier in a thread about misuse of 121.5. Had the lost student called earlier he may have avoided his death. I did say in my earlier posting "the student had done his best", however that refers to the fact that he did make a (late) mayday call. The accident report said that he had been airbourne for over two hours when the mayday was first heard and had been lost on his return to his home airfield, a flight which should have taken him no more than 40 mins. that means he pressed on trying to find his way for over an hour before asking for any help, by which time he was in an area of poor reception and poor terrain.
"It amazes me to see people abuse 121.5 - one day it may be my life which depends upon it. In the early 90's I was flying a Rutan Longeze (N Reg) in the UK for a quick flight before the summer light faded. The evening was lovely, calm, great viz but only about 60mins to sunset. I had decided to have a flight in the local area, as was my normal practice com 2 was set to 121.5, at 8000' over the Malvern hills I heard a weak mayday. The voice was very panicked, it called three times without any reply. I spoke to D&D and they asked me to relay for them, It turned out to be a student pilot who was lost and it turned out was flying towards the Welsh mountains (at the time that was unknown to the student pilot). Due to his weak transmission they were unable to DF the plane. D&D asked if I would fly west to see if his transmission got stronger, I stayed airbourne as long as I dared, however with only an hours fuel left and fading light, in an experimental aircraft not cleared or equiped for night flight I had no choice but to return to my base airfield.
No other planes joined in the emergency and no one else offered to relay. The student was found dead in the Welsh mountains the following morning.
The student had done his best - he had called for help. D&D (UK) at the time had poor coverage low level, of the mountains. I could not have safely stayed airbourne any longer so felt I had tried my best.
I wonder to this day if this would have had a better outcome if more people in the UK monitored 121.5 rather than switching it off as a distraction?"
In my opinion it does not matter who you are or how experienced you are, if you get lost (for what ever reason - we all have bad days) don't be proud and ask for help early. Its better to face a bit of ribbing from your mates than to infringe busy controlled airspace or crash into ground which you did not realise was there.
"It amazes me to see people abuse 121.5 - one day it may be my life which depends upon it. In the early 90's I was flying a Rutan Longeze (N Reg) in the UK for a quick flight before the summer light faded. The evening was lovely, calm, great viz but only about 60mins to sunset. I had decided to have a flight in the local area, as was my normal practice com 2 was set to 121.5, at 8000' over the Malvern hills I heard a weak mayday. The voice was very panicked, it called three times without any reply. I spoke to D&D and they asked me to relay for them, It turned out to be a student pilot who was lost and it turned out was flying towards the Welsh mountains (at the time that was unknown to the student pilot). Due to his weak transmission they were unable to DF the plane. D&D asked if I would fly west to see if his transmission got stronger, I stayed airbourne as long as I dared, however with only an hours fuel left and fading light, in an experimental aircraft not cleared or equiped for night flight I had no choice but to return to my base airfield.
No other planes joined in the emergency and no one else offered to relay. The student was found dead in the Welsh mountains the following morning.
The student had done his best - he had called for help. D&D (UK) at the time had poor coverage low level, of the mountains. I could not have safely stayed airbourne any longer so felt I had tried my best.
I wonder to this day if this would have had a better outcome if more people in the UK monitored 121.5 rather than switching it off as a distraction?"
In my opinion it does not matter who you are or how experienced you are, if you get lost (for what ever reason - we all have bad days) don't be proud and ask for help early. Its better to face a bit of ribbing from your mates than to infringe busy controlled airspace or crash into ground which you did not realise was there.
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I didnt mean any offence FBW and I didn't utter a word until you yourself presumably corrected the mistake (perhaps after someone esle had mentioned it,)
OK then lest hope thats the English lesson over with and lets get back to the subject of "Flight Safety"
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When I was learning in California due to DI progression (precession ?) I got lost on a solo XC. I flew a reciprocal course back to my last checkpoint and found the error and headed back in over the mountains to Gillespie, this time with my DI and compass agreeing.
However that initial problem had put me about 40 minutes behind schedule and was flying into a low, setting sun and a sea mist was rolling in. Which effectively obscured most ground features and I was scared I was going to fly into a hill. However a quick call to Gillespie confessing to being lost and asking for vectors meant they were able to guide me in. After about 10 minutes they told me to look out my right hand window and I should be able to see the runways at about three miles and I could, much to my relief.
Never be afraid to admit you are lost or have made a mistake !
However that initial problem had put me about 40 minutes behind schedule and was flying into a low, setting sun and a sea mist was rolling in. Which effectively obscured most ground features and I was scared I was going to fly into a hill. However a quick call to Gillespie confessing to being lost and asking for vectors meant they were able to guide me in. After about 10 minutes they told me to look out my right hand window and I should be able to see the runways at about three miles and I could, much to my relief.
Never be afraid to admit you are lost or have made a mistake !
