First time flying abroad help needed
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Leeds
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
First time flying abroad help needed
Hello
I passed my PPL last summer and now have access to a PA28 at Breighton
.
I am wanting to take a flight to mainland Europe (Belgium or Holland)
.
This will be the first time I have flown outside of the UK. Can anyone provide any tips/help with regard to planning this trip. Are there any good websites that can assist me with the planning of this trip. I already have SkyBook GA and Navbox Proplan. Is there an idiots guide to any procedures I have to follow with regard to the aviation authorities in either country.
Thank you for taking the time to read this. I will be very grateful for any help on this one.
Thanks
Tony
I passed my PPL last summer and now have access to a PA28 at Breighton
. I am wanting to take a flight to mainland Europe (Belgium or Holland)
.This will be the first time I have flown outside of the UK. Can anyone provide any tips/help with regard to planning this trip. Are there any good websites that can assist me with the planning of this trip. I already have SkyBook GA and Navbox Proplan. Is there an idiots guide to any procedures I have to follow with regard to the aviation authorities in either country.
Thank you for taking the time to read this. I will be very grateful for any help on this one.
Thanks
Tony
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here is the AIS for The Netherlands: AIS Netherlands
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: north of barlu
Posts: 6,207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
pycroft
I did a talk about flying abroad for new PPL's a few years back for the flying club that I teach at, if you email me I will send you a copy of my speaking notes and graphics.
Click on the Advert for Big Red Kite Aviation in the top right hand corner of this page (it will come around sooner or later).
Unfortunatly you cant PM me as the PPRune boss has blocked that!
Click on the Advert for Big Red Kite Aviation in the top right hand corner of this page (it will come around sooner or later).
Unfortunatly you cant PM me as the PPRune boss has blocked that!
Join Date: May 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 420
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
pycroft, I put this lot together a few years ago.
It is rather out of date in some of its detail now. Probably the biggest changes being that now you should use AFPex for submitting flight plans, rather than fax (the numbers I provide are definitely unusable now), and the GAR for Customs and Immigration etc can be emailed rather than faxed.
So far as telling you what you need to do it's still correct - it's the detail of HOW that's time expired.
A and C's notes are likely to be more helpful, but if there are any questions you want more background on then my stuff could be worth a squint.
I'll probably get round to updating it, but probably not soon!
It is rather out of date in some of its detail now. Probably the biggest changes being that now you should use AFPex for submitting flight plans, rather than fax (the numbers I provide are definitely unusable now), and the GAR for Customs and Immigration etc can be emailed rather than faxed.
So far as telling you what you need to do it's still correct - it's the detail of HOW that's time expired.
A and C's notes are likely to be more helpful, but if there are any questions you want more background on then my stuff could be worth a squint.
I'll probably get round to updating it, but probably not soon!
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 4,598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
now have access to a PA28 at Breighton
Furthermore, just a few things:
- Check custom requirements. Exit procedures UK, entry procedures to get into the Schengen area, and vice versa on the way back. UK GAR form is very helpful. On the mainland Europe side (Schengen!) need to enter/exit via a Customs airport. Some of these are 24H or OPS HR, other have 1H or 2H PN for customs. Once within Schengen, no more customs formalities required when crossing borders.
- ICAO flight plan required for all border crossings, even within the Schengen area.
- Perfect VMC over the channel is just like IMC, because the blue-grey of the sea melts seamlessly into the grey-blue of the sky, leaving you without a visible horizon. Have a plan to deal with this. Turn back immediately if you're uncomfortable with it.
- Consider life vests, life rafts, PLB, immersion suits, smoke, flares, signal mirrors etc.
- Check the layout of airspace in general. Different countries have different ways the airspace is divided, and not all airspace divisions (particularly the horizontal division between G and E) are shown on the map.
- Transition altitude varies by country.
- None of these "basic service", "procedural service" and things. Just a Flight Information Service from e.g. Brussels Info, Dutch Mil info.
- Crossing the channel you're almost guaranteed to enter the Oostende TMA (class C), either directly or when leaving French airspace. Need permission to enter.
- Over the channel, you need to have your ETAs handy and most likely report coasting out and in.
There's a lot of information on this in this forum. I know the search function is not all that great, but if you use "Channel Crossing" and limit your search to the Private Flying forum, you should be getting plenty info.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Around the world, at present in Indonesia & UK
Posts: 343
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Europe
Hello Pyecroft,
There has been a lot of very good help so far.
I normally fly into Europe from Jersey.
If I was going to BENELUX I would enter Schengen through Ostende, 3.2 km runway, super wide and very easy to find (last time I went there it had 3 NDBs), if flying rom the south you used to be told by Ostende to report at KOKSY (Koksijde military base).
Ostende is a very large, friendly but relatively quiet airport, with customs.
If my memory serves correctly, Belgium is more cheap than Holland.
Have as a possible alternate plan, if you enter Schengen through Ostende consider going south into France (cheaper than Belgium and it is only about 30 - 40NM away).
You could visit many airfields with very little flying time, Le Touquet, Calais, Dunkirk, Lille, etc. All thanks to the Luftwaffe.
Finally (never one to miss a chance to promote the Rally) how about getting a team together and enter the Jersey International Air Rally, 28th to 30th May, flying around NW Normandy and spending 2 days in Jersey.
Not to mention, duty free booze, draw back on your fuel tax and very cheap AVGAS for the trip back. Look at the rally thread on this forum.
Whatever you decide it will be one very exciting fun adventure; I remember my first one, 55hours flown (including the UK PPL), Jersey - Ostende - Dortmund - Teuge - Ostende - Jersey.
All of your European trips will teach you a very large amount about flying.
Have fun & Happy Landings
FB
There has been a lot of very good help so far.
I normally fly into Europe from Jersey.
If I was going to BENELUX I would enter Schengen through Ostende, 3.2 km runway, super wide and very easy to find (last time I went there it had 3 NDBs), if flying rom the south you used to be told by Ostende to report at KOKSY (Koksijde military base).
Ostende is a very large, friendly but relatively quiet airport, with customs.
If my memory serves correctly, Belgium is more cheap than Holland.
Have as a possible alternate plan, if you enter Schengen through Ostende consider going south into France (cheaper than Belgium and it is only about 30 - 40NM away).
You could visit many airfields with very little flying time, Le Touquet, Calais, Dunkirk, Lille, etc. All thanks to the Luftwaffe.
Finally (never one to miss a chance to promote the Rally) how about getting a team together and enter the Jersey International Air Rally, 28th to 30th May, flying around NW Normandy and spending 2 days in Jersey.
Not to mention, duty free booze, draw back on your fuel tax and very cheap AVGAS for the trip back. Look at the rally thread on this forum.
Whatever you decide it will be one very exciting fun adventure; I remember my first one, 55hours flown (including the UK PPL), Jersey - Ostende - Dortmund - Teuge - Ostende - Jersey.
All of your European trips will teach you a very large amount about flying.
Have fun & Happy Landings
FB
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: uk
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
abroad 1st time
Pyecroft,
Lots of sound advice above but I would certainly use the shortest crossing (Dover/Calais or Le Touquet)and then consider France as your initial overseas destination. Less complicated no need for Mode S etc as required in Holland, they are still light aviation friendly. Try an English speaking venue (most near the coast oblige)the details of those that do and dont are available on the web. Also you may find the new Skydemon flight planning kit worthy of examination, it is simple and very good when you are planning.I think you are able to download a free one month trial, if not it is worth the money to invest and make that element of flying easier. Finally remember most of our bad weather comes from the west, the route you use to return so always watch that the fronts scheduled to arrive dont come earlier tha
n was predicted.
Enjoy the experience.
Lots of sound advice above but I would certainly use the shortest crossing (Dover/Calais or Le Touquet)and then consider France as your initial overseas destination. Less complicated no need for Mode S etc as required in Holland, they are still light aviation friendly. Try an English speaking venue (most near the coast oblige)the details of those that do and dont are available on the web. Also you may find the new Skydemon flight planning kit worthy of examination, it is simple and very good when you are planning.I think you are able to download a free one month trial, if not it is worth the money to invest and make that element of flying easier. Finally remember most of our bad weather comes from the west, the route you use to return so always watch that the fronts scheduled to arrive dont come earlier tha
n was predicted.Enjoy the experience.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Age: 60
Posts: 491
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry for this question, but its based on logic......
Schengen is an immigration control agreement (not customs). Last time I looked UK was part of the EU customs union.
Logically, therefore, from a customs perspective, UK to mainland Europe should be no different from Slovakia to Czech or Germany to France. No requirement for customs.
Being outside of Schengen does require an immigration control on the transit though !
If this is being operated differently by the customs agencies, then it needs to be challenged at the EU level.
As I only normally cross mainland boundaries, please advise if you feel you are being required to undergo custome checks on UK-mainland Europe flights ?
Schengen is an immigration control agreement (not customs). Last time I looked UK was part of the EU customs union.
Logically, therefore, from a customs perspective, UK to mainland Europe should be no different from Slovakia to Czech or Germany to France. No requirement for customs.
Being outside of Schengen does require an immigration control on the transit though !
If this is being operated differently by the customs agencies, then it needs to be challenged at the EU level.
As I only normally cross mainland boundaries, please advise if you feel you are being required to undergo custome checks on UK-mainland Europe flights ?
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 4,598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
rmac, I'm sorry. I should have used the word "immigration" where I said "customs".
It's easy to lump customs and immigration together under one common heading, but they are different and since the EU deals with customs and "Schengen" with immigration, and countries can be a subscriber to either of those, the difference is relevant for us.
It's easy to lump customs and immigration together under one common heading, but they are different and since the EU deals with customs and "Schengen" with immigration, and countries can be a subscriber to either of those, the difference is relevant for us.
Flying abroad
Get a copy of the French "Delage Guide".Gives you most of the info you will ever need to visit what is still a light aircraft friendly country.
Just ensure you have the "paperwork" for the aircraft (including a VAT status doc).
Its then just down to munching your way around the various fields that have the best "Cafes".
Wherever you go the euro will be against you but as someone said the CI make a good hop for fuel and facilities.
Lydd still offers d/free fuel for outgoing flights,but you need to check the avgas price for the country of choice.
Remember at the smaller French fields the radio is for ordering your food!!!
Pobjoy
Just ensure you have the "paperwork" for the aircraft (including a VAT status doc).
Its then just down to munching your way around the various fields that have the best "Cafes".
Wherever you go the euro will be against you but as someone said the CI make a good hop for fuel and facilities.
Lydd still offers d/free fuel for outgoing flights,but you need to check the avgas price for the country of choice.
Remember at the smaller French fields the radio is for ordering your food!!!
Pobjoy
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've done the UK to Holland direct crossing quite a number of times in a SEP, and I'm comfortable with the risk : but I must admit I think I'd probably advise the short channel crossing for the first trip - it's a fair old leg across to Holland, even direct from somewhere like Norfolk.
If you do the short crossing, you can still hop up the coast to Beligium or further if you wish - and whoever mentioned Ostend as an easy first destination is quite right.
If you do the short crossing, you can still hop up the coast to Beligium or further if you wish - and whoever mentioned Ostend as an easy first destination is quite right.
