dry-suit or liferaft?
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Not an expert on this, but just adding a little consideration. Make sure the suit has a number of fairly large pockets, either on the torso or on the upper legs. You can store emergency stuff like your PLB, a signal mirror, smoke canisters and whatnot in them. In a ditching scenario, the only stuff that's guaranteed to come out of the aircraft with you is the stuff you have in your pockets.
Diving suits and to a lesser extent dinghy suits might not have pockets at all, or pockets that are too small.
Diving suits and to a lesser extent dinghy suits might not have pockets at all, or pockets that are too small.
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As you hit the water the aircraft will probably nose under and possibly the screen may go before popping back to float for at least a few minutes.
I have never been unfortunate enough to have to ditch but always felt very comfortable with a dry suit when flying over the sea.
It's worth doing a couple of test evacuations with your suit on and in safe conditions. OK, you look like Mr. Blobby and they cost a fortune each but hey!
Remember that following an engine failure you will have TIME before you ditch - at least quite a few minutes. It's worth having a 'ditching' safety card in your kneepad with the procedures you have pre-planned and with the little reminders you consider useful, for example to take your headset off before putting your helmet on, unclip the door and hold shut, note your GPS position etc.
I have never been unfortunate enough to have to ditch but always felt very comfortable with a dry suit when flying over the sea.
It's worth doing a couple of test evacuations with your suit on and in safe conditions. OK, you look like Mr. Blobby and they cost a fortune each but hey!
Remember that following an engine failure you will have TIME before you ditch - at least quite a few minutes. It's worth having a 'ditching' safety card in your kneepad with the procedures you have pre-planned and with the little reminders you consider useful, for example to take your headset off before putting your helmet on, unclip the door and hold shut, note your GPS position etc.
How many of you actually carry helmets with you?
Makes sense, reducing the chances of knocking yourself out and turning into fish food..
Ive often thought id like to be wearing my full face motorcycle helmet should I have to do some kind of forced landing.
Obviously Ive seen the aviation style ones you can buy..
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There are two main types of drysuit; Bayley type and the thinner sort.
Bayley type are best if you are actually in the drink and are issued to serious fishermen and oil workers. They are not comfortable in a light aircraft and very difficult to fly in. Typically you wear the bottom half and drape the top half over the seat behind you.
Thinner types are for flying, sailing, diving or kayaking etc and the major differences are in the level of trim and the shape. Typhoon make an overwater flight suit that is very good and the main difference between it and a sailing suit is the shape (made for sitting down) and the double thickness fabric in areas of likely wear (pilots wear the behind heavily). Sailing suits tend to be easier to obtain, cheaper and available in many sizes and colours. I wear a kayaking suit because it is female shaped.......
They should be checked regularly and worn seals replaced or holes mended by a reputable company.
SEMS in essex will rent you most survival gear in good nick and properly serviced. I don't work for them but was a satisfied customer for many years.
Bayley type are best if you are actually in the drink and are issued to serious fishermen and oil workers. They are not comfortable in a light aircraft and very difficult to fly in. Typically you wear the bottom half and drape the top half over the seat behind you.
Thinner types are for flying, sailing, diving or kayaking etc and the major differences are in the level of trim and the shape. Typhoon make an overwater flight suit that is very good and the main difference between it and a sailing suit is the shape (made for sitting down) and the double thickness fabric in areas of likely wear (pilots wear the behind heavily). Sailing suits tend to be easier to obtain, cheaper and available in many sizes and colours. I wear a kayaking suit because it is female shaped.......
They should be checked regularly and worn seals replaced or holes mended by a reputable company.
SEMS in essex will rent you most survival gear in good nick and properly serviced. I don't work for them but was a satisfied customer for many years.
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A bit more on ditching.
For those of you who think that a liferaft is expensive I would take the time out to consider what you would pay for one if you found yourself up to the neck in north sea!
A cheaper option than the stuff sold by the usual suspects might be the HELP pack sold by SES. It is basicly the single seat military liferaft that usualy lives in the seatpan of a bang seat.
With the cover up and the floor inflated it is very walm inside and at a push would take two people (but I dont recomend that!) The price is about £600, ad a new life jacket and PLB and I would guess the total price would be IRO £1100. It may seem like a lot but how much is your life worth?
Survival Equipment UK | Parachutes | Ejection Seats Servicing | Liferafts
LOCATION?
A lot of you seem have all the bits of the jigsaw when it comes to ditching but getting you location to the emergency sevices seems to be a bit vague, and an accurate fix is essential for your rescue.
Most of GA have a GPS on the aircraft and most of these units will have a "nearest" function. Part of my ditching drill is to select this function with the nearest VOR, that way you can broadcast you position as a radial & distance from a known point right up untill the point of impact.
It is SOP for all airliners to monitor 121.5 so the fact that you are making the broadcast at 20 feet above the sea wont effect the range when the reciving station is at FL350. It should get the responce you want unless the Americans are passing the baseball scores at the time.
A cheaper option than the stuff sold by the usual suspects might be the HELP pack sold by SES. It is basicly the single seat military liferaft that usualy lives in the seatpan of a bang seat.
With the cover up and the floor inflated it is very walm inside and at a push would take two people (but I dont recomend that!) The price is about £600, ad a new life jacket and PLB and I would guess the total price would be IRO £1100. It may seem like a lot but how much is your life worth?
Survival Equipment UK | Parachutes | Ejection Seats Servicing | Liferafts
LOCATION?
A lot of you seem have all the bits of the jigsaw when it comes to ditching but getting you location to the emergency sevices seems to be a bit vague, and an accurate fix is essential for your rescue.
Most of GA have a GPS on the aircraft and most of these units will have a "nearest" function. Part of my ditching drill is to select this function with the nearest VOR, that way you can broadcast you position as a radial & distance from a known point right up untill the point of impact.
It is SOP for all airliners to monitor 121.5 so the fact that you are making the broadcast at 20 feet above the sea wont effect the range when the reciving station is at FL350. It should get the responce you want unless the Americans are passing the baseball scores at the time.
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Fix
The 121.5 fix from D & D is quite accurate but only at altitude, I have had to relay for D & D while over the Channel as they could not stay in contact with a low flying rescue helicopter on VHF so a fix at low altitude is going to be a problem.
At 2000ft they will get you on VHF but at 20ft they won't Thats why I go for the radial/distance broadcast at 20ft because your intial fix from the D & D triangulation may be some way from the point that you hit the water.
My VHF box 2 is always tuned to 121.5 when over the water so that help is just the turn of one switch if I need it, I also have box 2 switched to audio at a low volume for monitoring.
At 2000ft they will get you on VHF but at 20ft they won't Thats why I go for the radial/distance broadcast at 20ft because your intial fix from the D & D triangulation may be some way from the point that you hit the water.
My VHF box 2 is always tuned to 121.5 when over the water so that help is just the turn of one switch if I need it, I also have box 2 switched to audio at a low volume for monitoring.
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Isn't it about time someone worked out a better idea for GA a la Full Aircraft Parachute?
How about inflatable bags in the wing spaces and/or the rear fuselage? Maybe permanently inflated bags or Ping pong balls? (Yes, I do know the reference.) It is not just the weight of the dinghy, there is the difficulty of getting it out and the difficulty of getting into it. How about an aircraft that stayed afloat?
Jemima is a Searey and our group experience is that, in accident where they fill with water or the hull is holed, they stay afloat for a while, varying on factors in the accident (usually an alighting accident.) However a couple have sunk after just a few minutes and I was concerned for my survival in cold water so . . . . .
I filled her up with polystyrene building board. Cost a couple of hundred bucks but I layered 2" board all down the aft floor glued with building adhesive and silicone caulking, and then braced it off the internal structure. Then I filled the nose with it, leaving a hatch and compartment for the battery. Extra weight came to about 15 lbs and displacement in water was about the 1100 lbs empty weight. I reckoned between the gas tank, air pockets and general buoyancy of some parts (Wing floats, tires and foam filled wing tips etc,) she'd float well enough to support at least my weight out of the water. I could have got a whole load more in but that would be a trade off against capacity, range etc. I did it based basically on guestimation but I am sure one could do a better and more exact calculation and design quite easily.
Of course you certified types are screwed but us 'Experiemental" or "Amateur Built" can do it easily. There was no paperwork involved in stuffing Jemima with Polystyrene!
How about inflatable bags in the wing spaces and/or the rear fuselage? Maybe permanently inflated bags or Ping pong balls? (Yes, I do know the reference.) It is not just the weight of the dinghy, there is the difficulty of getting it out and the difficulty of getting into it. How about an aircraft that stayed afloat?
Jemima is a Searey and our group experience is that, in accident where they fill with water or the hull is holed, they stay afloat for a while, varying on factors in the accident (usually an alighting accident.) However a couple have sunk after just a few minutes and I was concerned for my survival in cold water so . . . . .
I filled her up with polystyrene building board. Cost a couple of hundred bucks but I layered 2" board all down the aft floor glued with building adhesive and silicone caulking, and then braced it off the internal structure. Then I filled the nose with it, leaving a hatch and compartment for the battery. Extra weight came to about 15 lbs and displacement in water was about the 1100 lbs empty weight. I reckoned between the gas tank, air pockets and general buoyancy of some parts (Wing floats, tires and foam filled wing tips etc,) she'd float well enough to support at least my weight out of the water. I could have got a whole load more in but that would be a trade off against capacity, range etc. I did it based basically on guestimation but I am sure one could do a better and more exact calculation and design quite easily.
Of course you certified types are screwed but us 'Experiemental" or "Amateur Built" can do it easily. There was no paperwork involved in stuffing Jemima with Polystyrene!
Westwind Ditched with Two Liferafts
Both liferafts went down with the ship
They were flying to Norfolk Island when the weather deteriorated below forecast and after four missed approaches had to ditch.
The main door was stove in and the emergency exits admitted water upon opening. The last person to exit had a considerable swim to the surface.
The locals found them because the copilot happened to have a LED flashlight in his pocket.
AO-2009-072
There must be a reason I fly with my PLB in my pocket
They were flying to Norfolk Island when the weather deteriorated below forecast and after four missed approaches had to ditch.
The main door was stove in and the emergency exits admitted water upon opening. The last person to exit had a considerable swim to the surface.
The locals found them because the copilot happened to have a LED flashlight in his pocket.
AO-2009-072
There must be a reason I fly with my PLB in my pocket
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Both liferafts went down with the ship
They were flying to Norfolk Island when the weather deteriorated below forecast and after four missed approaches had to ditch.
The main door was stove in and the emergency exits admitted water upon opening. The last person to exit had a considerable swim to the surface.
The locals found them because the copilot happened to have a LED flashlight in his pocket.
AO-2009-072
There must be a reason I fly with my PLB in my pocket
They were flying to Norfolk Island when the weather deteriorated below forecast and after four missed approaches had to ditch.
The main door was stove in and the emergency exits admitted water upon opening. The last person to exit had a considerable swim to the surface.
The locals found them because the copilot happened to have a LED flashlight in his pocket.
AO-2009-072
There must be a reason I fly with my PLB in my pocket
Interesting article. If I have read it correctly the search team initially set off in the wrong direction!
Glad they all made it though.
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I spent a major chunk of my flying career in helicopters over the North Sea. The pilots in those wear survival suits, lifejackets and a lot of thermal gear under. They carry ELT's in a pouch on the jacket and normally flares and a strobe in a suit pocket. The jackets also have a strobe which goes onto the hood.
The passengers all wear heavier suits with re-breather units, to allow a few minutes escape time. The aircraft have at least three life rafts (S61 & AS332) as well as "pop out" flotation gear, an Adelt and two large EPIRBs. Everyone, crew and passengers has dunker training, with regular recurrency training. I talked with several pilots who had ditched and the common theme was that the evacuation rarely goes to plan, and the water temperature is absolutely stunning.
Then it happened to me: the initial shock that it is going to happen passes quickly with two crew doing their best to keep the situation from going from an emergency to a disaster. The aircraft rolled on impact with a large swell and filled in seconds. The water was so cold I struggled not to gasp and so inhale. Everyone got out safely, but, even in regular dinghy drill we all struggled to get into the rafts. Everyone was severely seasick in the rafts, and all had some symptoms of extreme cold/hypothermia when we were fished out. And it was August.
I still fly over water a lot, and since that time I have completed 19 solo, single engined crossings of the Atlantic, but you should see the kit I carry!
The passengers all wear heavier suits with re-breather units, to allow a few minutes escape time. The aircraft have at least three life rafts (S61 & AS332) as well as "pop out" flotation gear, an Adelt and two large EPIRBs. Everyone, crew and passengers has dunker training, with regular recurrency training. I talked with several pilots who had ditched and the common theme was that the evacuation rarely goes to plan, and the water temperature is absolutely stunning.
Then it happened to me: the initial shock that it is going to happen passes quickly with two crew doing their best to keep the situation from going from an emergency to a disaster. The aircraft rolled on impact with a large swell and filled in seconds. The water was so cold I struggled not to gasp and so inhale. Everyone got out safely, but, even in regular dinghy drill we all struggled to get into the rafts. Everyone was severely seasick in the rafts, and all had some symptoms of extreme cold/hypothermia when we were fished out. And it was August.
I still fly over water a lot, and since that time I have completed 19 solo, single engined crossings of the Atlantic, but you should see the kit I carry!
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Ditching:
Think about the process:
Emergency
Decision to ditch - max'd out?
try to estimate wind and wave directions
ditch with a bump - have to survive that
then get out
then get back in to get liferaft
then inflate liferaft - hope it doesn't get blown away
get into liferaft
stay alive in liferaft.
Think about the chances of it happening. Make your own choice.
I fly over the water for a living, doing what Sir Niall did. I haven't ditched yet, but always prepare for it.
It may be interesting to note, that all the old helicopters in the North Sea have liferafts that can be deployed from either inside, or from outside an aircraft even when inverted. At least one is built into a door so that you more or less take it with you. All the new large helicopters have liferafts that are installed on the outside of the aircraft and can be deployed from inside or outside. All aircraft are fitted with floats that will keep the aircraft floating the right way up in sea states up to about a 5 and floating inverted for a considerable period. The point I am trying to make is that a liferaft is only any good if you can get it out of the aircraft, inflate it and hang onto it - they are very good a disappearing in the wind, especially light weight aviation ones.
Unless the weather is calm less (than about 10 kts) you have very little chance. But the last ditching I saw on here was successful because the Lady was wearing a survival suit.
Think about the process:
Emergency
Decision to ditch - max'd out?
try to estimate wind and wave directions
ditch with a bump - have to survive that
then get out
then get back in to get liferaft
then inflate liferaft - hope it doesn't get blown away
get into liferaft
stay alive in liferaft.
Think about the chances of it happening. Make your own choice.
I fly over the water for a living, doing what Sir Niall did. I haven't ditched yet, but always prepare for it.
It may be interesting to note, that all the old helicopters in the North Sea have liferafts that can be deployed from either inside, or from outside an aircraft even when inverted. At least one is built into a door so that you more or less take it with you. All the new large helicopters have liferafts that are installed on the outside of the aircraft and can be deployed from inside or outside. All aircraft are fitted with floats that will keep the aircraft floating the right way up in sea states up to about a 5 and floating inverted for a considerable period. The point I am trying to make is that a liferaft is only any good if you can get it out of the aircraft, inflate it and hang onto it - they are very good a disappearing in the wind, especially light weight aviation ones.
Unless the weather is calm less (than about 10 kts) you have very little chance. But the last ditching I saw on here was successful because the Lady was wearing a survival suit.
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As a windsurfer (who spends much time in the water ) I am certain that if you chuck the inflated raft in the water and hope to climb in, unless the wind is flat calm it will be gone so fast that nobody short of an Olympic swimmer will catch it.
I once lost a board in ~ F6 wind (the universal joint broke) and despite it being almost submerged there was no way of catching up with it.
That's why one must hold onto the activation rope until everybody is inside. In fact it is recommended to attach it to the aircraft; not sure I would do that, in case the breakable link doesn't break
None of this stuff is easy, but a life raft does offer a viable escape route, and not carrying one means you don't have an escape route at all - other than through luck of ditching next to a boat etc.
Failures of the big old certified Lyco/Conti engines are so rare that this makes sense, in the context of the low hours flown over large expanses of water by private pilots. I don't think helicopters are quite so reliable, and also the commercial ops are flying all the time so the risk is so much higher that they probably have to more or less bank on a ditching at some stage.
) I am certain that if you chuck the inflated raft in the water and hope to climb in, unless the wind is flat calm it will be gone so fast that nobody short of an Olympic swimmer will catch it.I once lost a board in ~ F6 wind (the universal joint broke) and despite it being almost submerged there was no way of catching up with it.
That's why one must hold onto the activation rope until everybody is inside. In fact it is recommended to attach it to the aircraft; not sure I would do that, in case the breakable link doesn't break
None of this stuff is easy, but a life raft does offer a viable escape route, and not carrying one means you don't have an escape route at all - other than through luck of ditching next to a boat etc.
Failures of the big old certified Lyco/Conti engines are so rare that this makes sense, in the context of the low hours flown over large expanses of water by private pilots. I don't think helicopters are quite so reliable, and also the commercial ops are flying all the time so the risk is so much higher that they probably have to more or less bank on a ditching at some stage.
I qualified in Australia as a civil search & rescue pilot. We would practice dropping liferafts in single unit & twin unit (ie two rafts joined by a 100' line) configurations. A single unit would be dropped upwind of, and with a trailing line over, the target. Twin unit was dropped upwind of the target as well, on a crosswind track with a liferaft either side of the target so the wind would drift the line onto the target.
Even in a slight breeze it always surprised me how bloody fast those rafts would move. Even the police boat(s) sometimes had trouble catching them. I'd defy anyone to catch a raft in more than a *small* amount of wind. I often thought I'd rather be receiving a twin unit than single. At least I'd know the line was on its way and would catch me, instead me having to find & catch the single unit's upwind line before it drifted away.
In a ditching I think I'd make every effort to secure the raft to the airframe before inflating. If that's not feasible then my next choice would be to tie myself to it.
Even in a slight breeze it always surprised me how bloody fast those rafts would move. Even the police boat(s) sometimes had trouble catching them. I'd defy anyone to catch a raft in more than a *small* amount of wind. I often thought I'd rather be receiving a twin unit than single. At least I'd know the line was on its way and would catch me, instead me having to find & catch the single unit's upwind line before it drifted away.
In a ditching I think I'd make every effort to secure the raft to the airframe before inflating. If that's not feasible then my next choice would be to tie myself to it.
Over water
I have not read all of this thread so forgive me if I repeat anything.
The simple answer is do not even consider flying a small aircraft over large expanses of water. I have personally flown too many long range search and rescue missions looking for missing aircraft. We very rarely found anyone. Sometimes we saw a flare but never found the people. I have searched for people in dinghys and small boats who were found days later and reported that they had been overflown several times by search aircraft at low level, we did not see them.
If you are stupid enough to try it you need the dinghy, immersion suit, lifejacket, handheld GPS, hand held radio, PLB and lots of water.
You will almost certainly never be seen if you are in the water without a dinghy. Think how difficult it is to see a ball in the sea when you are at the beach then consider that the search aircraft will be looking for a football probably the same colour as the sea which keeps getting washed over by waves whilst they are flying at 300ft and 220kts.
If you really need to get your aircraft to another continent then take the wings off and send it as frieght like the air racers do.
Personal opinion I know and shoot me down for not being adventurous, but I am the old pilot.
Stay safe
MM
The simple answer is do not even consider flying a small aircraft over large expanses of water. I have personally flown too many long range search and rescue missions looking for missing aircraft. We very rarely found anyone. Sometimes we saw a flare but never found the people. I have searched for people in dinghys and small boats who were found days later and reported that they had been overflown several times by search aircraft at low level, we did not see them.
If you are stupid enough to try it you need the dinghy, immersion suit, lifejacket, handheld GPS, hand held radio, PLB and lots of water.
You will almost certainly never be seen if you are in the water without a dinghy. Think how difficult it is to see a ball in the sea when you are at the beach then consider that the search aircraft will be looking for a football probably the same colour as the sea which keeps getting washed over by waves whilst they are flying at 300ft and 220kts.
If you really need to get your aircraft to another continent then take the wings off and send it as frieght like the air racers do.
Personal opinion I know and shoot me down for not being adventurous, but I am the old pilot.
Stay safe
MM
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I dont think the thread was aimed at people crossing the atlantic. More the shorter trips likely to be flown in SEP, i.e en route to France, IOM, Ireland etc.
Clearly a PLB is a must to assist in people finding you rather than relying on them simply seeing you which like you said might be almost impossible.
There was an email doing the rounds a while back showing what a person in the sea looks like from a certain altitude- almost invisible!
Clearly a PLB is a must to assist in people finding you rather than relying on them simply seeing you which like you said might be almost impossible.
There was an email doing the rounds a while back showing what a person in the sea looks like from a certain altitude- almost invisible!
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As I keep saying - one needs to balance the need for an escape route from (the miniscule possibility of, assuming a properly maintained and operated plane) an engine failure over water, against the desire to make flying enjoyable, perhaps with passengers, getting away from the 50 mile burger run and going abroad, and it isn't going to be a very "welcoming" (not to mention practical) outing if one has to dress up like an astronaut.
One can do a lot of simple things which - looking at GA stats - will achieve far more than dressing up for a ditching. One of them is to make sure there is some fuel in the tanks (and one does this by taking off the filler cap and looking in there)..................
One can do a lot of simple things which - looking at GA stats - will achieve far more than dressing up for a ditching. One of them is to make sure there is some fuel in the tanks (and one does this by taking off the filler cap and looking in there)..................
Hmmmyeah
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A liferaft is only of any benefit once you're in it, and getting there is much more tricky than you would ever imagine.
Given that in cold water (classed as less than 15 degrees celcius in sea survival terms) you are reasonably likely to suffer cold shock and associated swim failure immediately on entering the water and become severely compromised in your ability to think clearly and perform even simple manual tasks within a couple of minutes, the chances of you even inflating, let alone boarding, your liferaft successfully are quite slim if you're not protected from the cold during those crucial first minutes and it's not a procedure you've actually practised in anger.
Even if the water is slightly warmer and does not cause the effects mentioned above, most people who've never been shown how to do so are completely unable to right and enter a liferaft from the water. After a handful of failed attempts, most people have insufficient energy remaining to board the liferaft even if instructed in the correct manner in which to do so at this point. By the time they've rested in the water for long enough to have regained sufficient energy for another attempt, they will be on the downward spiral of having lost yet more energy to the onset of symptoms of the cold than has been recovered by resting.
Unless you've had first hand experience of sudden exposure to cold water, you are extremely likely to greatly underestimate its effects. I suggest the wearing of attire which protects you on first immersion, as all the liferafts you can carry will do you not one iota of good if you're unable to board them.
If you're serious about understanding what you're facing, it's well worth reading Essentials of Sea Survival by Frank Golden and Michael Tipton.
Once you've read it, if you want to have a reasonable chance of surviving rather than just understanding the situations it covers, go and do a sea survival course. A good one carried out in cold water should prove to be quite frightening as you realise just how vulnerable you are even in such a controlled environment, nevermind how desperate your plight would be in an unplanned situation with no one on hand to pluck you from the water should you mess things up.
Given that in cold water (classed as less than 15 degrees celcius in sea survival terms) you are reasonably likely to suffer cold shock and associated swim failure immediately on entering the water and become severely compromised in your ability to think clearly and perform even simple manual tasks within a couple of minutes, the chances of you even inflating, let alone boarding, your liferaft successfully are quite slim if you're not protected from the cold during those crucial first minutes and it's not a procedure you've actually practised in anger.
Even if the water is slightly warmer and does not cause the effects mentioned above, most people who've never been shown how to do so are completely unable to right and enter a liferaft from the water. After a handful of failed attempts, most people have insufficient energy remaining to board the liferaft even if instructed in the correct manner in which to do so at this point. By the time they've rested in the water for long enough to have regained sufficient energy for another attempt, they will be on the downward spiral of having lost yet more energy to the onset of symptoms of the cold than has been recovered by resting.
Unless you've had first hand experience of sudden exposure to cold water, you are extremely likely to greatly underestimate its effects. I suggest the wearing of attire which protects you on first immersion, as all the liferafts you can carry will do you not one iota of good if you're unable to board them.
If you're serious about understanding what you're facing, it's well worth reading Essentials of Sea Survival by Frank Golden and Michael Tipton.
Once you've read it, if you want to have a reasonable chance of surviving rather than just understanding the situations it covers, go and do a sea survival course. A good one carried out in cold water should prove to be quite frightening as you realise just how vulnerable you are even in such a controlled environment, nevermind how desperate your plight would be in an unplanned situation with no one on hand to pluck you from the water should you mess things up.
Poll Needed
It would be interesting to set up a poll of those who would have a dry suit before a raft, or vice versa -- along with whether they have been immersed in cold water.
I suspect that those who have been immersed in cold water would put the dry suit first.
I suspect that those who have been immersed in cold water would put the dry suit first.
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Weighing up all the advice I've seen over the years, I've come to two conclusions:
1. If you only have a life raft, then you stand a very big chance of being too cold/shocked to get it out of the aircraft.
If you do get it out of the aircraft, you'll probably be too cold to able to get yourself into it. It's not easy, and your muscles will stop working normally very very quickly. They will probably already have lost a lot of control, by the time you've got the raft inflated, never mind attempted to get into it.
If you don't get into it, then you'll die from the cold before you're found.
2. If you only have a immersion suit, then finding you is next to impossible. Your head is too small a target in 10s or 100's of square miles of featureless water, and PLB's are hard to keep out of the water to get a signal.
You're survival time in the water, maybe longer, but you're time to being found will be a lot longer, and you'll eventually die from the cold too.
In either circumstance you maybe lucky. If you only have a raft, your aircraft may fload and you maybe able to step into it from the wing.
If you only have an immersion suit, you maybe lucky and be found quickly by a passing ship, or your PLB maybe picked up.
But if you really want to give yourself a reasonable chance of survival, then you actually need both. Having just one is major compromise and not likely to lead to a successful outcome.
Of course it's an unlikely event, but I'm pretty sure that there has been at least one ditching off the coast of either Ireland or the UK, since I started to fly, nearly 10 years ago. They are rare, but not unknown!
1. If you only have a life raft, then you stand a very big chance of being too cold/shocked to get it out of the aircraft.
If you do get it out of the aircraft, you'll probably be too cold to able to get yourself into it. It's not easy, and your muscles will stop working normally very very quickly. They will probably already have lost a lot of control, by the time you've got the raft inflated, never mind attempted to get into it.
If you don't get into it, then you'll die from the cold before you're found.
2. If you only have a immersion suit, then finding you is next to impossible. Your head is too small a target in 10s or 100's of square miles of featureless water, and PLB's are hard to keep out of the water to get a signal.
You're survival time in the water, maybe longer, but you're time to being found will be a lot longer, and you'll eventually die from the cold too.
In either circumstance you maybe lucky. If you only have a raft, your aircraft may fload and you maybe able to step into it from the wing.
If you only have an immersion suit, you maybe lucky and be found quickly by a passing ship, or your PLB maybe picked up.
But if you really want to give yourself a reasonable chance of survival, then you actually need both. Having just one is major compromise and not likely to lead to a successful outcome.
Of course it's an unlikely event, but I'm pretty sure that there has been at least one ditching off the coast of either Ireland or the UK, since I started to fly, nearly 10 years ago. They are rare, but not unknown!