Pitot heat check?
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Because PPL flying seems to attract two types, the live for the moment crowd who recognise that there is risk in life and still know how to have fun and the analyse everything crowd with skills matrices and risk identification paperwork with a chain that starts with an assessment on how safe it is to get out of bed. Options A, stay in bed and possibly get sores, gangrene and die, Option B get up but run the risk of stubbing toe on way to bathroom, get gangrene, die. The risks assessment goes on...
I am the former camp, jump out if bed stand on puppies toys, go flying. I guess that's why I will fly a 70 year old with no pitot heater!11
I am the former camp, jump out if bed stand on puppies toys, go flying. I guess that's why I will fly a 70 year old with no pitot heater!11
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Smug remarks aren't necessary, Wombat
facetious |fəˈsē sh əs|
adjective
treating serious issues with deliberately inappropriate humor; flippant.
smug |sməg|
adjective ( smugger, smuggest)
having or showing an excessive pride in oneself or one's achievements : he was feeling smug after his win.
However I really prefer:
humor |ˈ(h)yoōmər| ( Brit. humour)
noun
1 the quality of being amusing or comic, esp. as expressed in literature or speech : his tales are full of humor. See note at wit .
• the ability to perceive or express humor or to appreciate a joke : their inimitable brand of humor | she has a great sense of humor.
2 a mood or state of mind : her good humor vanished | the clash hadn't improved his humor.
• archaic an inclination or whim.
3 (also cardinal humor) historical each of the four chief fluids of the body (blood, phlegm, yellow bile [choler], and black bile [melancholy]) that were thought to determine a person's physical and mental qualities by the relative proportions in which they were present.
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Thankyou for the lesson bose-X, but no, it wasn't aimed at you; if you look back along the thread there's another contributor or two, one of whom is named 'Wombat'
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What the discussion does show though is that there are two groups out there.
There are purely-VFR pilots, and IMHO most of those don't fly if the weather is less than pretty nice, so they won't worry about the pitot heat.
In fact, I don't think a single plane I flew in for my PPL training had a working pitot heater; I always checked the thing for getting warm (as I was told) but it was never significantly warm, whereas my TB20 pitot tube will literally set fire to the plastic cover on it in under a minute or two, and after 30 secs cannot be touched by hand. The schools obviously don't want to spend the £200 on a new tube.
Then you have IFR pilots, most of whom won't fly with significant defective equipment, and rightly so. Single pilot IFR can be hard enough work without putting a banana skin under your feet before even departing...
There is also the slight legal issue of departing with faulty equipment which is a required carriage in the flight manual for night VFR or IFR.
A pitot tube is really cheap to replace so should be fixed without question.
Sure one can fly and land without the ASI but one can get significant errors at temps approaching 0C even in VMC, but these won't initially be obvious so why mess with this at all? I can't see the point. Would one depart with a load of cockroaches bunging up one's static vents? One doesn't need an altimeter to fly and land, either.
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I think its a bit more than risk assement bose.
It seems there are pilots who have grasped the whole concept of flying. What your actually doing, how your actions alter how the aircraft fly's, why the plane does what it does when you do tamper with it. What you are actually doing with a control input, what the limits are and what is limiting them. They can be 45 hour pilots or 1000 hours pilots it does seem to make much difference.
And then there is another group where flying is a series of rules and regulations with a bit hand eye foot stuff. The reason behined those rules and regulations is not understood. There is a fixation on getting everything "right" the mathamatical solution to a wind correction must be applied to a hold or for that matter a nav leg to the degree in planning. The fact that you have to wag it later on in flight and you will hardly ever fly the heading you planned is missed. The thread on holding is a good example of this.
Again with the say lack of instuments in certain conditions in this thread. There is a group which obviously don't trust physics to continue working after a failure. The instruments are controlling them controlling the aircraft. It is also well known IR problem of fixation on 1 instrument instead of taking the full picture of all the information sources.
I had a stick shaker in the climb one sector. I quickly looked at the attitude and the power settings and the ASI. All were reading that I wasn't anywhere near the stall. So I didn't change anything and asked for the spurious stick shaker QRH card. After the Capatain had run it he was very complementry about the fact I hadn't done a stall recovery which had done to him previously. FO had manged to get them at +20 Vmo with the stick shaker still going and 20degs nose down before he took control. The previous FO had been in the mind set stick shaker equals stall, book says put nose forward until stickshaker stops.
Flying is part science and part art and part rule following. In a perfect pilot I presume they will all have equal bias. But more and more these days the rule following is taught and not really understood leaving the science and the art the disabled siblings.
It seems there are pilots who have grasped the whole concept of flying. What your actually doing, how your actions alter how the aircraft fly's, why the plane does what it does when you do tamper with it. What you are actually doing with a control input, what the limits are and what is limiting them. They can be 45 hour pilots or 1000 hours pilots it does seem to make much difference.
And then there is another group where flying is a series of rules and regulations with a bit hand eye foot stuff. The reason behined those rules and regulations is not understood. There is a fixation on getting everything "right" the mathamatical solution to a wind correction must be applied to a hold or for that matter a nav leg to the degree in planning. The fact that you have to wag it later on in flight and you will hardly ever fly the heading you planned is missed. The thread on holding is a good example of this.
Again with the say lack of instuments in certain conditions in this thread. There is a group which obviously don't trust physics to continue working after a failure. The instruments are controlling them controlling the aircraft. It is also well known IR problem of fixation on 1 instrument instead of taking the full picture of all the information sources.
I had a stick shaker in the climb one sector. I quickly looked at the attitude and the power settings and the ASI. All were reading that I wasn't anywhere near the stall. So I didn't change anything and asked for the spurious stick shaker QRH card. After the Capatain had run it he was very complementry about the fact I hadn't done a stall recovery which had done to him previously. FO had manged to get them at +20 Vmo with the stick shaker still going and 20degs nose down before he took control. The previous FO had been in the mind set stick shaker equals stall, book says put nose forward until stickshaker stops.
Flying is part science and part art and part rule following. In a perfect pilot I presume they will all have equal bias. But more and more these days the rule following is taught and not really understood leaving the science and the art the disabled siblings.
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IO540, I think it's even simpler. I think all the pilots on here will not take-off in an airplane while knowing that a certain bit of essential kit is inop. Of course, what one considers essential may vary a bit from pilot to pilot, from flight to flight, and the POH has a few things to say on that as well. And some of us have maybe skipped an item or two (pitot cover anyone?) on the pre-flight check and come to regret that afterwards.
What does differ is the amount of drama we make when discovering something is just not right, in-flight. There's one camp that will make an informed decision about the consequences of the failure and continue or abort the flight as necessary, flying the airplane by feel if necessary, and tell the engineers afterwards. And there's a camp that treats every failure as a mayday scenario, and once safely on the ground they tell the people propping up the bar first, and the engineers later.
I guess one of the differences between the two camps is the amount of training they've had, and the experience they've accumulated. If you've never been trained to land an aircraft without instruments whatsoever, then every instrument failure is an emergency. Just like if you've never been trained to read a map, your GPS failure will constitute an emergency.
What does differ is the amount of drama we make when discovering something is just not right, in-flight. There's one camp that will make an informed decision about the consequences of the failure and continue or abort the flight as necessary, flying the airplane by feel if necessary, and tell the engineers afterwards. And there's a camp that treats every failure as a mayday scenario, and once safely on the ground they tell the people propping up the bar first, and the engineers later.
I guess one of the differences between the two camps is the amount of training they've had, and the experience they've accumulated. If you've never been trained to land an aircraft without instruments whatsoever, then every instrument failure is an emergency. Just like if you've never been trained to read a map, your GPS failure will constitute an emergency.
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Always check your pitot heat, no matter if you're planning IFR or VFR.
I usually have a buddy feel the probe while I switch on the pitot heat and look for an ampere load..
A prolonged period of pitot heat with engine off is not good for your battery, specially in the winter weather that is striking Europe right now.
Having your flying buddy feel the heat also avoids burning one's hands..
These things get very hot.. Be cautious
I usually have a buddy feel the probe while I switch on the pitot heat and look for an ampere load..
A prolonged period of pitot heat with engine off is not good for your battery, specially in the winter weather that is striking Europe right now.
Having your flying buddy feel the heat also avoids burning one's hands..
These things get very hot.. Be cautious
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The other thing is that the wires to the pitot heater go past the fuel tank, so if the heater is not working, can sure can you be the wire hasn't come off and is about to make a nice spark right where there is a little fuel leak?
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There are purely-VFR pilots, and IMHO most of those don't fly if the weather is less than pretty nice, so they won't worry about the pitot heat.
So depending on the time of the flight, as a VMC limited pilot, I may take a different view about the pitot heater, as I would want a full panel available to get out of IMC safely with my limited instrument skills.
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Checking the pitot heat for a day VFR flight is neither a requirement[*], nor a necessity. It is an opportunity, and a service to the next pilot.
If you discover it to be inop before a night VFR or IFR flight, the flight is no-go (unless you can get it fixed immediately, which you usually can't). If you discover it to be inop before a day VFR flight, you can write it up, the flight is a go anyway, and there is a chance for maintenance to fix it before the next IFR or night VFR flight.
Regarding the two groups theory, it is rather simpler than what is being said. One group looks at new ideas as something to be looked into, assessed, and then adopted or disgarded after careful consideration; or as something to be ignored, at their own pleasure. The other group looks at new ideas as something that is different from what they do, therefore wrong.
One group thinks they are the only ones who know how to have fun, and look with contempt at those whose idea of a good time differ. The other group couldn't care less what the first group thinks.
And most significantly: One group is focused on their own flying, and the other group is concerned with how others fly. I'm in the first group!
[*] edited to add: it might be a requirement depending on jurisdiction, but since a few previous posters take a rather dim view on regulations, maybe we can leave that out...
If you discover it to be inop before a night VFR or IFR flight, the flight is no-go (unless you can get it fixed immediately, which you usually can't). If you discover it to be inop before a day VFR flight, you can write it up, the flight is a go anyway, and there is a chance for maintenance to fix it before the next IFR or night VFR flight.
Regarding the two groups theory, it is rather simpler than what is being said. One group looks at new ideas as something to be looked into, assessed, and then adopted or disgarded after careful consideration; or as something to be ignored, at their own pleasure. The other group looks at new ideas as something that is different from what they do, therefore wrong.
One group thinks they are the only ones who know how to have fun, and look with contempt at those whose idea of a good time differ. The other group couldn't care less what the first group thinks.
And most significantly: One group is focused on their own flying, and the other group is concerned with how others fly. I'm in the first group!
[*] edited to add: it might be a requirement depending on jurisdiction, but since a few previous posters take a rather dim view on regulations, maybe we can leave that out...
I routinely cover the ASI when I fly with students as it is a great way to make the point that attitude + power really does equal performance. This is especially effective on final as students are continually amazed at how well they can judge the airspeed just by assesing the attitude and noting the power setting.
As for checking the pitot heat before a day VFR flight..... I would suggest that care should be taken to ensure that one has not fallen into the trap of treating every check action as having an equal importance to safe flight, which is absolutely not the case, and making sure there is full understanding on "why" you are doing something not just on "what" you are doing.
As for checking the pitot heat before a day VFR flight..... I would suggest that care should be taken to ensure that one has not fallen into the trap of treating every check action as having an equal importance to safe flight, which is absolutely not the case, and making sure there is full understanding on "why" you are doing something not just on "what" you are doing.
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This is especially effective on final as students are continually amazed at how well they can judge the airspeed just by assesing the attitude and noting the power setting.
Ok for those especially pedantic I will amplify my comment.
1) Since I have to be in the aircraft to cover the airspeed indicator I am hardly going to do in an attitude/configuration where there is any chance of the aircraft stalling. In the .000000001 % chance of a stall there will be no spin because I emphasize the importance of controlling yaw from the very beginning of stalling exercises
2) I cover the airspeed indicator with a little yellow sticky. It can be easily ripped off if it becomes desirable to see the ASI.
3) Since the point of the exercise is to convince the student that they can in fact make a very accurate estimate of the airspeed by looking out the windshield at the attitude and noting the power, in practice I show them ASI at regular intervals after asking them to tell me what they think the ASI is reading. They very quickly will be within 2 or 3 knots of the actual airspeed
4) Like everything else in flight training there is a time and a place for every exercise. If the student is allready overloaded with heavy ATC or other issues there is no value to this exercise. I wait for low traffic density and smooth air before introducing this exercise.
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Sorry about continueing the thread drift, but I agree with flying by attitude awareness.
Most of my clients come out of "spam cans" ie Cessna, Piper, and Cirrus. Virtually all of them chase the airspeed indicator and altimeter and invariably do better when flying attitude alone. They are much smother and less choppy on the controls, and all are surprised at how much information is outside the window.
I like to think that they all go home a better pilot. I know they have more fun.
I don't mean any slight to the aircraft mentioned above, they all do a good job at what they were designed to do.
Ron
advancedtailwheeltraining.com
Most of my clients come out of "spam cans" ie Cessna, Piper, and Cirrus. Virtually all of them chase the airspeed indicator and altimeter and invariably do better when flying attitude alone. They are much smother and less choppy on the controls, and all are surprised at how much information is outside the window.
I like to think that they all go home a better pilot. I know they have more fun.
I don't mean any slight to the aircraft mentioned above, they all do a good job at what they were designed to do.
Ron
advancedtailwheeltraining.com
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Please don't make fun of an old man just short of being senile, but when we are talking about Pitot heat in a simple airplane and the risk you face if it is not working how do you get enough ice to block the airspeed indicator?
If you are slow enough in your thinking process to actually get in that situation would you rather have a heated pitot or wing anti/de ice?
If an airplane needs heated pitot/'s would it not follow it should have wing ice protection also?
If you are slow enough in your thinking process to actually get in that situation would you rather have a heated pitot or wing anti/de ice?
If an airplane needs heated pitot/'s would it not follow it should have wing ice protection also?
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I think Chuck that the pitot can accumulate some ice - enough to affect the reading - long before any significant amount appears on the lift surfaces. I have seen ASI effects when there was no visible ice on the wing leading edges, and in apparent VMC.
Big Pistons Forever - I get your drift and don't disagree, but while it is trivial to establish the speed/power/pitch relationship in level flight, it is less obvious when e.g. descending especially if descending steeply, and with various flap settings, and turbulence. Sure one can do it, by applying heavy margins, but I would still not knowingly deprive myself of the ASI. It remains a vital instrument, and more so if one is going to do a max performance landing on a runway which is anywhere near close to the lower limit.
Big Pistons Forever - I get your drift and don't disagree, but while it is trivial to establish the speed/power/pitch relationship in level flight, it is less obvious when e.g. descending especially if descending steeply, and with various flap settings, and turbulence. Sure one can do it, by applying heavy margins, but I would still not knowingly deprive myself of the ASI. It remains a vital instrument, and more so if one is going to do a max performance landing on a runway which is anywhere near close to the lower limit.