Yoke vs Stick.
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Yoke vs Stick.
I learned to fly on yokes and for me they embody fixed wing. I also flew 23 hrs on helicopters back in the days, and for me helicopters are closely connected to stick (not much choice there, though). I like it that way.
I tried an hour in a DA42 TwinStar earlier this fall, and although a lovely aircraft in all other ways, I just couldn't get to grips with the stick. I was in the left seat and the aircraft is supposed to be flown with your left hand. Maybe all these years of self pleasuring have made my right hand a lot stronger, but it just felt odd.
The instructor caught me flying it with the right on many occasions and had to tell me to shift hands.
Now, alarmingly, whenever there's a new airplane or concept out they always have sticks. I can't think of a single new aircraft, microlight or concept in the last 5 years that hasn't had a stick (Tecnam P2006T twin being the exception). Even dyed-in-the-wool yokers (if you pardon), like Cessna, have abandoned it with the new 162 Skycatcher. The worst offenders (yes I'm looking at you, Microlights!) is the shared stick between the seats.
It's bringing me down. I know it makes sense from a space and construction point of view, but I miss yokes. I like yokes. I want to keep yokes.
Am I being overly sentimental, or does anyone else share?
I tried an hour in a DA42 TwinStar earlier this fall, and although a lovely aircraft in all other ways, I just couldn't get to grips with the stick. I was in the left seat and the aircraft is supposed to be flown with your left hand. Maybe all these years of self pleasuring have made my right hand a lot stronger, but it just felt odd.
The instructor caught me flying it with the right on many occasions and had to tell me to shift hands.Now, alarmingly, whenever there's a new airplane or concept out they always have sticks. I can't think of a single new aircraft, microlight or concept in the last 5 years that hasn't had a stick (Tecnam P2006T twin being the exception). Even dyed-in-the-wool yokers (if you pardon), like Cessna, have abandoned it with the new 162 Skycatcher. The worst offenders (yes I'm looking at you, Microlights!) is the shared stick between the seats.
It's bringing me down. I know it makes sense from a space and construction point of view, but I miss yokes. I like yokes. I want to keep yokes.
Am I being overly sentimental, or does anyone else share?
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I prefer a control stick, personally. I don't know why, since either stick or yoke do the job just as effectively, but I still prefer a floor-mounted control stick!
Actually I think its more of a sentimental thing, because all of the most evocative aircraft (Spitfire, Hurricane, Tiger Moth, etc) were controlled by a control stick. Yokes have more of an 'airliner' feel to them.
Am yet to try a side-stick in a real aircraft, but already biased against them. They save space in the cockpit, I suppose, but they just don't feel right. The new panel-mounted control stick featured in the New Cessna Skycatcher looks weird, but it would be interesting to try it.
Actually I think its more of a sentimental thing, because all of the most evocative aircraft (Spitfire, Hurricane, Tiger Moth, etc) were controlled by a control stick. Yokes have more of an 'airliner' feel to them.
Am yet to try a side-stick in a real aircraft, but already biased against them. They save space in the cockpit, I suppose, but they just don't feel right. The new panel-mounted control stick featured in the New Cessna Skycatcher looks weird, but it would be interesting to try it.
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I am with you, Adam 
Have never tried a side stick, though, so cannot comment. Flown various DiamondAirs and positively hated it - where do you put a kneeboard? And lunch? As you can probably tell, DB6, I am not into aerobatics
Have never tried a side stick, though, so cannot comment. Flown various DiamondAirs and positively hated it - where do you put a kneeboard? And lunch? As you can probably tell, DB6, I am not into aerobatics
A little less conversation,
a little more aviation...
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Side sticks are deliberately designed to be as objectionable as possible (if certain Airbus designers had their way, they'd resemble a dog-poo in order to discourage anyone from touching it), because you're supposed to let the automatics fly the aeroplane.
A yoke is traditionally something you place on the shoulders of a poor, dumb, smelly, cud-chewing beast of burden to bind them to the tedious task of hauling a heavy, groaning agricultural vehicle across the landscape. In terms of aviation, the only difference nowadays is that the yoke is attached to the hands, rather than the shoulders.
Which leaves with the centrally mounted control stick, the preferred mechanism of skygods and helicopter monkeys. The helicopter monkeys, you will note, actually have a side-stick as well, but that's only because they like the smell of dog-poo.
Any more questions?
(Edited: for punctuation, and to point out the Yak-18T doesn't have a yoke, it has a stick with gravitas)
A yoke is traditionally something you place on the shoulders of a poor, dumb, smelly, cud-chewing beast of burden to bind them to the tedious task of hauling a heavy, groaning agricultural vehicle across the landscape. In terms of aviation, the only difference nowadays is that the yoke is attached to the hands, rather than the shoulders.
Which leaves with the centrally mounted control stick, the preferred mechanism of skygods and helicopter monkeys. The helicopter monkeys, you will note, actually have a side-stick as well, but that's only because they like the smell of dog-poo.
Any more questions?
(Edited: for punctuation, and to point out the Yak-18T doesn't have a yoke, it has a stick with gravitas)
Last edited by eharding; 4th Jan 2010 at 21:37.
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Stick. But, I cannot fly left-handed because for some reason my left hand is not connected to my brain, not in quick-time anyway. So, stick in the right hand, throttle in the left, and designers and manufacturers who provide a duplicate left-hand throttle for the left-seat pilot are to be praised to the skies.
Step forward the designers of the Robin DR400 and the Tecnam Sierra. Any more out there?
Step forward the designers of the Robin DR400 and the Tecnam Sierra.
Any more out there?
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The Robin R2160 (think of it as the metal-wing, aerobatic two-seater version of the DR400) also has dual throttle controls, and I think the CAP-10 as well. Something the French did right.
However, having learned to fly in the LHS of a Warrior, I still fly the aircraft, even during aerobatics, with my left hand, leaving the right hand free for throttle, flaps, avionics, carb heat and any other controls located in the middle of the aircraft. The throttle on the far left side of the panel is only used during starting.
And then I got told off by my gliding instructor for grabbing the stick with my left hand: In an ASK-21 all controls are on the LHS of the cockpit so you steer with your right hand.
Oh well...
Back to the original topic: I prefer a yoke for long straight and level flights because it keeps my lap clear for kneeboard, charts and stuff. But when manoevering/aerobatics, I prefer a stick. Somehow it feels more natural and direct. Never flown a side-stick though.
However, having learned to fly in the LHS of a Warrior, I still fly the aircraft, even during aerobatics, with my left hand, leaving the right hand free for throttle, flaps, avionics, carb heat and any other controls located in the middle of the aircraft. The throttle on the far left side of the panel is only used during starting.
And then I got told off by my gliding instructor for grabbing the stick with my left hand: In an ASK-21 all controls are on the LHS of the cockpit so you steer with your right hand.
Oh well...
Back to the original topic: I prefer a yoke for long straight and level flights because it keeps my lap clear for kneeboard, charts and stuff. But when manoevering/aerobatics, I prefer a stick. Somehow it feels more natural and direct. Never flown a side-stick though.
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My Emeraude has a stick, 2 off parallelogrammy actually, & a throttle quadrant on both sides.
Cessna drivers feel at home in the right seat except they can't reach the carb heat or mixture. Only drawback is the flaps & trim are in the middle. Don't like yokes, they are for bus drivers!
Cessna drivers feel at home in the right seat except they can't reach the carb heat or mixture. Only drawback is the flaps & trim are in the middle. Don't like yokes, they are for bus drivers!
I now have more stick time than yoke time. But a majority is FBW sidestick.
IMHO, the FBW sidestick is perfect for an airliner. You don't have that enormous and largely redundant thing stuck between your legs. The sidestick leaves plenty of room for the more important things such as eating and reading the newspaper. And as for the table - brilliant!
IMHO, the FBW sidestick is perfect for an airliner. You don't have that enormous and largely redundant thing stuck between your legs. The sidestick leaves plenty of room for the more important things such as eating and reading the newspaper. And as for the table - brilliant!
Some homebuilt glider designs use sidesticks where pitch is controlled by sliding forward and back
They have a significant loss rate to PIOs on takeoff and often the pilot is lost too
I suspect yokes made their way into private a/c because the marketeers wanted to say it was just like driving a car.
Yokes commonly run through the panel to gears and linkages that descend to under the floor; so, a designer can get rid of a lot of space behind the panel and save a few pounds by putting a stick in front of the seat -- at least with tandem designs.
Side by sticks require more doodads to get to work together, but then transport certification often requires a means to separate the controls if one system jams and we see separate control runs to the actuators.
They have a significant loss rate to PIOs on takeoff and often the pilot is lost too
I suspect yokes made their way into private a/c because the marketeers wanted to say it was just like driving a car.
Yokes commonly run through the panel to gears and linkages that descend to under the floor; so, a designer can get rid of a lot of space behind the panel and save a few pounds by putting a stick in front of the seat -- at least with tandem designs.
Side by sticks require more doodads to get to work together, but then transport certification often requires a means to separate the controls if one system jams and we see separate control runs to the actuators.
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As a glider pilot used to flying stick right, everything else left, coming to powered also made me feel like my brain was disconnected from my left hand the only thing I can offer is a) persist flying stick left - you will develop the motor skills b) get in a proper aeroplane with inline seating, stick right, throttle left = happiness!
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I have checked out a lot of pilots who have learnt on one control and are then flying the other, I would say that almost without exception those going from yoke to stick find the transition natural , those going the other way find it strange and and most prefer the stick over yoke.
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Originally Posted by RatherBeFlying
I suspect yokes made their way into private a/c because the marketeers wanted to say it was just like driving a car.
.Never had that problem with a stick.
I think that I've flown just about every left /right / centre / yoke / stick combination going and found most of the transitions reasonably easy. So, I have a few semi informed opinions...
- For aerobatics I'd much rather have a right hand stick.
- For touring I'll take whatever allows me the most room on and around my knees. Touring with a sidestick can be very enjoyable.
- I agree that going from yoke to stick seems slightly easier than the other way around.
- With a single stick between the seats, I'd much prefer it to be 'Y' shaped.
- With a mechanical sidestick I'd like to be able to see the ailerons, primarily to ensure visually that they're parallel for takeoff.
G
- For aerobatics I'd much rather have a right hand stick.
- For touring I'll take whatever allows me the most room on and around my knees. Touring with a sidestick can be very enjoyable.
- I agree that going from yoke to stick seems slightly easier than the other way around.
- With a single stick between the seats, I'd much prefer it to be 'Y' shaped.
- With a mechanical sidestick I'd like to be able to see the ailerons, primarily to ensure visually that they're parallel for takeoff.
G
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Yoke, stick or headrest?
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Untitled-(Sealand-Aviation)/PZL-Okecie-PZL-104M-Wilga-2000/0629552/M/
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Untitled-(Sealand-Aviation)/PZL-Okecie-PZL-104M-Wilga-2000/0629552/M/
