YAK 52

[Vatican69]

Hi,

Does anyone have any experience of owning and operating a YAK 52?

A friend and I are thinking of setting up a syndicate of about six people.

I've looked around, the few that are for sale (shares and aircraft) seem to put the average value at around 35k.

I'd be interested to know what the realistic running costs are (I have looked on the net and have produced some, I think, some reasonable figures) per hour and per month.

I've never been in or set up a syndicate before, so any advice on that subject would be most welcome.

We like the look of the YAK as we are both professional pilots and looking for something we can have a bit of fun in outside of work, we like the kind of warbird feel/look of it and the fact that it could still be used for lunch aways as well as a bit of aeros.

Any help you can offer appreciated.

Vatican

[Arclite01]

based where ?

That will affect your running costs significantly.......

[Vatican69]

We are both south west based for the majority of the time, cornwall (deepest darkest) to be precise, but a location south of birmingham and west of oxford would probably suffice.

[steveking]

A friend of mine has just bought one. He paid a little more than that but it is a very nice one. I did try to get him to get an RV and I almost convinced him but at the last minuite he decided on the Yak. He loves it and is currently doing some flying with Gennady Elfimov, punch his name into youtube, some very interesting flying. When I went with him to look at it Mark Geofferys at Little Gransden who looks after a lot of YAks showed us his invoice book for the annuals averaging about 2-3k. My friend gets anywere between 40-55ltrs an hour. They run on a CAA permit to fly. Can't say much more than that has he has only had it for a few months.

[Vatican69]

Steve,

Thanks for that sounds about right, I was looking at around 2.8k for the annual, plus 1.5k for unforseen issues, 2k for insurance, 1k for hangarage, 2.5k over eight years for hoses, 3k for a life extension at the 600hr/15yr point, £33 an hour for the engine and £4 per hr for the prop.

I have heard they can use up to 3ltr of oil an hour but no idea of oil costs and i'm working on £1.50 ltr for fuel at 16 gal/hr.

Please feel free to correct my assumptions

[eharding]

Originally Posted by steveking

My friend gets anywere between 40-55ltrs an hour.

Presumably Gena has, up until now, been showing your friend the fine art of starting the Yak-52, warming the engine, and taxying to the pumps.

The best I've ever managed in a straight-and-level economy cruise transit was 60 litres an hour - maybe ours runs a little rich, but I'll put money on a ground frost in hell before you see 40 litres an hour in a 52.

Once you start to rock and roll, you'll see the wrong side of 120 litres an hour - and worth every penny.

FWIW, we currently run the group with a fixed cost of £7800 a year, and a variable (wet, airborne hour) cost using the following formula:

£130/hr + ((pump price/litre - £1) * 80)

Which has worked fairly well - however, Yaks are made for sharing - sharing the fun, and sharing the costs - a couple of years ago, our annual/airframe life extension inspection was estimated at £4K, and finished at £17K.

Be prepared for the occasional monumental trouser-accident of a bill if you want to operate anything on a CAA Permit.

[steveking]

If you are serious about one it would be well worth a call to Mark at little Gransden to chat about them. My knowledge is just in passing. I think the oil burn rate is dependant on if you are doing aeros or not.

Have you flown one yet? Not that I have flown a warbird but the Yak does give you that feel.

MY friend is using his weekly and getting a lot of fun out of it, not the cheapest plane in the world to run, well compared to my little RV anyway but if your happy with the budget a great plane.

[Vatican69]

130/hr + ((pump price/litre - £1) * 80)

Forgive my simple mind...what does the star represent?

How many in your syndicate? Does that give you guys much of a slush fund?

Do the rest of my ball park figure seem reasonable to you?

What sort of cost can we look at for type training, where is it best to go for the afore mentioned?

Cheers

[steveking]

E Harding

Wow 120 Ltrs an hour. Only going on what my friend has said. He has the 400hp engine as well. Must admit he hasn't got into any heavy areos yet.

Sounds like we best get a bigger fuel bouser on the field.

[TheGorrilla]

Can vouch for what eHarding says, I'm in his group. Ours is a 360hp motor, so brace yourself.

However, it is worth pointing out that 359 hp is used over coming the extra induced drag of getting eHarding and his personal Ginsters pastie and pork pie supply airborne. Thus leaving 1 hp left to fly lunchevacs.

[eharding]

Originally Posted by Vatican69

Forgive my simple mind...what does the star represent?

How many in your syndicate? Does that give you guys much of a slush fund?

Do the rest of my ball park figure seem reasonable to you?

What sort of cost can we look at for type training, where is it best to go for the afore mentioned?

Cheers

"*" means "multiplied by".

i.e.working on an average fuel burn of 80 litres an hour, if the pump price was £1 a litre, the rate would be £130 an hour - the formula was put in place a while ago, when the price was a lot closer to £1 than it is now.

10 in the syndicate, with a 40% BA contingent, split 50/50 Airbus/Boeing. We try to keep the Airbus quotient below 30%, in case they try to vote through a motion to move the stick to the side console and put a picnic table in the middle. Apparently, if the BA membership of the group reaches 60%, Willie Walsh has rights to an additional EGLL-EGLM slot.

Your costings are realistic, but as above, be prepared for the occasional shock bill and inevitable cash-call.

In terms of conversion, no-one knows the Yak-52 better than Gena, and you *do* need to experience the accelerated flat-spin, ideally with him in the back seat. Obviously, the Yak-52 was conceived as a basic trainer, but in an environment where failure was at best dealt with harshly. It has corners of the envelope that will, not entirely figuratively speaking, tear your arms off and beat you to death with the soggy ends. We also have a couple instructors at White Waltham who have a lot of experience on type who can help with the conversion process - feel free to PM me for names.

As for the Gorilla - I'm not taking cr@p about my pie consumption from someone who caused Airbus to have to rework all of the flight dynamics code when it became clear the C of G of an A318 could indeed be moved to the left (and 10 feet behind the nosecone) when he swapped seats.

[TheGorrilla]

Tosh! I fly A319s anyway!

How heavy was your christmas eat-a-thon Mr eHarding? Do we need to remove all unnecessary avionics, replace all the metal on the 52 with carbon fiber and half fill the tanks with helium before your next flight?

[stiknruda]

Flying a YAK is just the aerial equivalent of ploughing with my 1975 David Brown Tractor!

You can complete your mission profile in many other "cheaper to run" aircraft.

If you do buy one - get spin training from Gennady.

For 3 years I took off to display after he landed: he'd run down the centre line, downwind, max chat, erect 100' - pull up to the 45. As speed decayed he'd half-flick to inverted - start the pull through, pop the gear and land on the numbers.

I'd be lining up to go as he exited and still recall shaking my head at the audacity of the act (and the safety gates that were built into it!).



Stik

[Lister Noble]

I fly a 1942 65 hp L4 Cub,£1250 per share, £200/annum and £35/hr wet.That's it.
All in all , I bet I get better smiles per pound than you lot do
And get to drive a nice old car,sail the odd mile,and have the occassional party,and get a reasonable pension.
There is a bonus in reaching old age
Keep on flying us old un's around for our package hols!

[mad_jock]

Do you have the same currency periods for the Boeing and Airbus pilots?

Or do you half the Boeing currency for the Airbus pilots?

[Lister Noble]

Stik

We posted the same time,how about a beer on Friday at the Bell?

[TheGorrilla]

Lister Noble,

I also have a share in a J3 Cub, very different aircraft. Don't bother comparing them, they're both great fun.

[eharding]

Originally Posted by Lister Noble

I fly a 1942 65 hp L4 Cub,£1250 per share, £200/annum and £35/hr wet.That's it.
All in all , I bet I get better smiles per pound than you lot do

You'll note the Gorilla had a J3 for years before he got into the Yak.

Nowadays, his widest grins in the Cub are to be had watching me trying to get into - and worse, out of - the bloody thing.

Of course, I'm sure your Saga Happy Sunshine Holidays L4 leaves you with a huge grin on your face - just don't dribble while you're doing so, or nurse will ground you.

[TheGorrilla]

YouTube - 2002 Wheels and Wings Airshow - Flying Farmer

6:50 is quite amusing!

[eharding]

Originally Posted by stiknruda

Flying a YAK is just the aerial equivalent of ploughing with my 1975 David Brown Tractor!

Stik - you're not doing it right - it should be more like trying to set a lap record at the Nürburgring in a Range Rover, while towing your tractor.

He does have a point though - a Pitts S2 does deliver a better price/performance ratio, and *everyone* should have some Pitts time - but you just don't get the same heavy-metal buzz in a Pitts that the Yak delivers.

Do both, that's my advice.