YAK 52
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 232
Likes: 0
From: southeast UK
As someone who got ripped off owning a Yak I would advise caution.
Ours was condemned as having spar corrosion to the point that the repair would have been in excess of its value. Subsequently this un-airworthy airframe was bought off us for peanuts then flown to Germany (along with one other 'suffering' the same problem). I now see both the aircraft have been flying quite happily in Germany for over two years with no sign of major work to the airframe.
Yak sales and maintenance in the UK is controlled by a cartel of two organisations. If you try to use another organisation info is fed back from the east to these guys who promptly say 'we know you approaching other places for repair'.
If your Yak is pre-1990 build then be prepared for a 'corrosion' issue to arise due to alleged poor quality of metal when the maintenance company deems it.
Operating costs......
The Yak was based upon the USSR requirement for it to be returned to the factory every 500 hours for a total rebuild. (Kept the peasants in employment). For UK permit the UK dealers have agreed a system of replacing items on a timed basis, then getting Yak Design Bureau to sign off the work every 1000 hours or so. Some components will not last much in excess of 700 hours such as undercarriage rams which we had more than a few 'overhauled' units fitted.
For a comfortable cruise you will exceed 70 lph of Avgas and 1 litre of W100 per hour. Anything less than setting 70% rpm/700 mg will feel lumpy and soggy.
The average quoted figures for an annual will be for a 'new' airframe like driving a new car. When the aircraft grows older the figures also grow. If I could be bothered to go up into the attic I could quote some figures that would make your eyes water.
The engine has a TBO of 500 hours (750 if it is factory new for the first overhaul). New/ovehauled engine prices are riising.
Absolutely great machine which I flew for 7 years ruined by money grabbing maintenance and Yak Design Bureau.
Ours was condemned as having spar corrosion to the point that the repair would have been in excess of its value. Subsequently this un-airworthy airframe was bought off us for peanuts then flown to Germany (along with one other 'suffering' the same problem). I now see both the aircraft have been flying quite happily in Germany for over two years with no sign of major work to the airframe.
Yak sales and maintenance in the UK is controlled by a cartel of two organisations. If you try to use another organisation info is fed back from the east to these guys who promptly say 'we know you approaching other places for repair'.
If your Yak is pre-1990 build then be prepared for a 'corrosion' issue to arise due to alleged poor quality of metal when the maintenance company deems it.
Operating costs......
The Yak was based upon the USSR requirement for it to be returned to the factory every 500 hours for a total rebuild. (Kept the peasants in employment). For UK permit the UK dealers have agreed a system of replacing items on a timed basis, then getting Yak Design Bureau to sign off the work every 1000 hours or so. Some components will not last much in excess of 700 hours such as undercarriage rams which we had more than a few 'overhauled' units fitted.
For a comfortable cruise you will exceed 70 lph of Avgas and 1 litre of W100 per hour. Anything less than setting 70% rpm/700 mg will feel lumpy and soggy.
The average quoted figures for an annual will be for a 'new' airframe like driving a new car. When the aircraft grows older the figures also grow. If I could be bothered to go up into the attic I could quote some figures that would make your eyes water.
The engine has a TBO of 500 hours (750 if it is factory new for the first overhaul). New/ovehauled engine prices are riising.
Absolutely great machine which I flew for 7 years ruined by money grabbing maintenance and Yak Design Bureau.
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
From: uk
Ok so the Pitts S2 is a possibility, but I have to say I'd be a bit nervous about the landing and ground handling characteristics.
What about a T67M260, I haven't seen many around, but I learnt on one a few years back, anyone got any idea how much they go for?
The other possible contender was a Chippie!
What about a T67M260, I haven't seen many around, but I learnt on one a few years back, anyone got any idea how much they go for?
The other possible contender was a Chippie!
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,200
Likes: 0
From: Norfolk UK
eharding
Of course, I'm sure your Saga Happy Sunshine Holidays L4 leaves you with a huge grin on your face - just don't dribble while you're doing so, or nurse will ground you.
I use baby bibs,I have lots of different colours and pretty patterns,the nurse makes sure I'm all cleaned up on landing then wheels me back to the care home.
I have flown with Stik and in an Extra so have seen the other side,trouble is negative G and the bib
Lister
I use baby bibs,I have lots of different colours and pretty patterns,the nurse makes sure I'm all cleaned up on landing then wheels me back to the care home.
I have flown with Stik and in an Extra so have seen the other side,trouble is negative G and the bib
Lister
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,966
Likes: 0
From: Norfolk
Stardusters are very pretty. Skybolts are heavy. Neither has the balance, poise or performance of Curtis' design. I am very heavily biased but I'm not wrong!
The Pitts has an undeserved reputation re landing - there are folk who can teach you to put it down safely in the UK.
Lister - I am shooting tomorrow but may be beer-able over the w/e.
(And Lister does have a BEAUTIFUL old car!)
Stik
The Pitts has an undeserved reputation re landing - there are folk who can teach you to put it down safely in the UK.
Lister - I am shooting tomorrow but may be beer-able over the w/e.
(And Lister does have a BEAUTIFUL old car!)
Stik
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
From: uk
Sitk,
Thanks for your help so far, if I might beg your indulgence a little more.
I'm thinking the Yak is going to be too costly to run.
The Pitts for the right price (we would of course get the appropriate training) looks great, but with no intention of entering comps of anything like that (I haven't flown fixed wing for about 5 years or done aeros for that long either) I wonder whether it would be more than we'd need.
The other A/C that have come to my attention are the Acrosport 2, Starduster Too and the Skybolt.
I have been through G-INFO and there aren't many of them around, are they easy enough to import? Not really interested in building one...lack of time!
We looked at the T67 too (both trained on it), but we would want the 260 and babcock have a bit of a monopoly there.
You've already mentioned the Skybolt is heavy, prohibitively so? Any thoughts on the others?
Cheers
Vatican
Thanks for your help so far, if I might beg your indulgence a little more.
I'm thinking the Yak is going to be too costly to run.
The Pitts for the right price (we would of course get the appropriate training) looks great, but with no intention of entering comps of anything like that (I haven't flown fixed wing for about 5 years or done aeros for that long either) I wonder whether it would be more than we'd need.
The other A/C that have come to my attention are the Acrosport 2, Starduster Too and the Skybolt.
I have been through G-INFO and there aren't many of them around, are they easy enough to import? Not really interested in building one...lack of time!
We looked at the T67 too (both trained on it), but we would want the 260 and babcock have a bit of a monopoly there.
You've already mentioned the Skybolt is heavy, prohibitively so? Any thoughts on the others?
Cheers
Vatican
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,966
Likes: 0
From: Norfolk
Vat69 (that shows my age!)
I can pretty much predict what will happen if you go down the Skybolt, Hatz, Acrosport, Starduster - you'll absolutely love it. Then some bastard will give you a go in an Eagle or a Pitts and you'll feel cheated... and after some time you'll end up with a Pitts! If you don't believe me, I can point you at many who have trodden the same path.
You are both obviously ex-mil - when have you ever had too much power to weight ratio?
Yes importing is perfectly feasible - I've been involved with 2 Eagles, 3 Pitts and various lesser machines.
I do know of a good Eagle that could be crated up next month - share space with Zulu Alpha's new machine in the same box and be flying mid spring. PM me or ZA for more details.
Hope that helps,
Happy New Year to all
Stik
(Lister - slight disruption to normal service here at NTF, will call you Sat!)
I can pretty much predict what will happen if you go down the Skybolt, Hatz, Acrosport, Starduster - you'll absolutely love it. Then some bastard will give you a go in an Eagle or a Pitts and you'll feel cheated... and after some time you'll end up with a Pitts! If you don't believe me, I can point you at many who have trodden the same path.
You are both obviously ex-mil - when have you ever had too much power to weight ratio?
Yes importing is perfectly feasible - I've been involved with 2 Eagles, 3 Pitts and various lesser machines.
I do know of a good Eagle that could be crated up next month - share space with Zulu Alpha's new machine in the same box and be flying mid spring. PM me or ZA for more details.
Hope that helps,
Happy New Year to all
Stik
(Lister - slight disruption to normal service here at NTF, will call you Sat!)
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 44
Likes: 4
From: Oakland, CA
As a rookie Pitts pilot who just transitioned from a Super Decathlon I can back up Stik's comments.
1. Your first Pitts flight is like crack. There is no going back.
2. An awful lot of the Pitts' reputation on landing/ground handling is overblown. It's no Citabria but it's a very honest plane and does exactly what you tell it to do. My pre-takeoff checklist has an extra "head out of backside" check at the end and if you follow that golden rule you should be OK.
Get lots and lots of good spin training from somebody that really knows what they're doing.
1. Your first Pitts flight is like crack. There is no going back.
2. An awful lot of the Pitts' reputation on landing/ground handling is overblown. It's no Citabria but it's a very honest plane and does exactly what you tell it to do. My pre-takeoff checklist has an extra "head out of backside" check at the end and if you follow that golden rule you should be OK.
Get lots and lots of good spin training from somebody that really knows what they're doing.
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
From: uk
Stik,
Current Mil, and you're not wrong, I live limited power and it sucks!!!
So Pitts s2 or Eagle is your call!
Thanks for all your advice, we are out of area at the moment, looking to do something when we get back. If we are still up for it will PM you in due course if that's ok.
Happy new year to you all. Stay safe!
Vatican
Current Mil, and you're not wrong, I live limited power and it sucks!!!
So Pitts s2 or Eagle is your call!
Thanks for all your advice, we are out of area at the moment, looking to do something when we get back. If we are still up for it will PM you in due course if that's ok.
Happy new year to you all. Stay safe!
Vatican
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 832
Likes: 0
From: East Anglia
The Eagle is a good Pitts substitute if you are not into hard aeros and the front seat is much more spacious. It is also an LAA permit aircraft so cheaper to run. The Pitts S2As are almost all certified so more expensive to maintain.
The Eagle is a very good alternative to the YAK.
The YAK is a great aircraft but fuel consumption is a killer, hence the low prices.
None of these is a patch on a good monoplane though!!!!
ZA
The Eagle is a very good alternative to the YAK.
The YAK is a great aircraft but fuel consumption is a killer, hence the low prices.
None of these is a patch on a good monoplane though!!!!
ZA
A little less conversation,
a little more aviation...
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 696
Likes: 0
From: Bracknell, UK
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,966
Likes: 0
From: Norfolk
Vat69 et chum,
Come visit when you get back. (I have a strip and helipad in LFA9)
Keep safe!
Given that there are two of you, do you really need a two seater?
Stik
Martin Price - the strongest drug I do is called ale, but your post had me laughing out loud!! Happy Pitts-ing!
Come visit when you get back. (I have a strip and helipad in LFA9)
Keep safe!
Given that there are two of you, do you really need a two seater?
Stik
Martin Price - the strongest drug I do is called ale, but your post had me laughing out loud!! Happy Pitts-ing!
Last edited by stiknruda; 31st December 2009 at 22:49.
