FAA PPL/JAA Conversion training
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FAA PPL/JAA Conversion training
Hello to all kind members of this forum...
First of all thanks for all the information here posted regarding JAA Training in US. It was very helpfull and made me set my mind in doing "expresso" training in U.S.
My name is David and I'm thinking in obtaining a FAA private pilot license (or JAA PPL in the U.S). One of the main reasons is that mostly what I know till now I learned in FAA manuals and the material I have is far more interesting than the JAA based material.
I have a few question regarding the training in U.S
1st- Is it possible to do the FAA written exams in Europe (home study?) or to apply to some FAA EU based school. (Or to sit the exam radiately upon arrival in the US)
2nd- If I do my PPL in U.S do I stay with 2 licenses FAA and JAA? (for me that would be something highly desirable)
3rd- Do you know any flight school in europe that can give a jump start to the FAA license
4th- I was thinking in doing my training in U.S next summer, and I read here to avoid Florida around that season! Here can one go for accelerated JAA/FAA training else then Florida?
Well I hope someone can kindly answer to my questions
I was thinking in doing the JAA ATPL but the costs/global finance crise/aviation market dictate that would be better to go the slow way...
Thanks ahead...
First of all thanks for all the information here posted regarding JAA Training in US. It was very helpfull and made me set my mind in doing "expresso" training in U.S.
My name is David and I'm thinking in obtaining a FAA private pilot license (or JAA PPL in the U.S). One of the main reasons is that mostly what I know till now I learned in FAA manuals and the material I have is far more interesting than the JAA based material.
I have a few question regarding the training in U.S
1st- Is it possible to do the FAA written exams in Europe (home study?) or to apply to some FAA EU based school. (Or to sit the exam radiately upon arrival in the US)
2nd- If I do my PPL in U.S do I stay with 2 licenses FAA and JAA? (for me that would be something highly desirable)
3rd- Do you know any flight school in europe that can give a jump start to the FAA license
4th- I was thinking in doing my training in U.S next summer, and I read here to avoid Florida around that season! Here can one go for accelerated JAA/FAA training else then Florida?
Well I hope someone can kindly answer to my questions
I was thinking in doing the JAA ATPL but the costs/global finance crise/aviation market dictate that would be better to go the slow way...
Thanks ahead...
Last edited by Dinho Pilot; 25th Nov 2009 at 12:27.
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Yes you can do the FAA exam here in Europe but you are better off doing them in the US at half the price.
If you want to use the priviliges of your licence to the fullest you would need to have two licences
Yes just do a search on google for FAA schools in your area , there are not many but there are a few.
Florida summer can be severe and you could loose a few days flying due to storms . If you are not used to the heat and dont mind staying a few days longer then there shold not be a problem.
Just stay away from a schools called OBA or they are now cahnging there name to EASA
If you want to use the priviliges of your licence to the fullest you would need to have two licences
Yes just do a search on google for FAA schools in your area , there are not many but there are a few.
Florida summer can be severe and you could loose a few days flying due to storms . If you are not used to the heat and dont mind staying a few days longer then there shold not be a problem.
Just stay away from a schools called OBA or they are now cahnging there name to EASA
Spoon PPRuNerist & Mad Inistrator
What's the exact problem with OBA school?
This thread is not to be distracted with pros / cons of individual training establishments.
SD
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David, don't let your preference for either FAA or JAA be influenced by the attractiveness/readability of the course material. First and foremost, you need to decide what your future flying is going to be like. Particularly the first letter or first two letters that are going to be in the callsign of the aircraft you're going to fly.
If you're going to fly in Germany for fun, with a limited number of hours per year (say 50 maximum) then you'll probably rent, or buy into a group share. This means a D-reg, so you need a JAA license.
If you're going to fly in Germany but you plan on serious touring, including an IR, it may (note: "may") be advantageous for you to get an FAA PPL, and add an FAA IR to that. You also need to buy an N-reg outright, or a share in an N-reg, because there are only very few N-reg planes available for hire in Europe. There are two advantages to doing this over a JAA PPL/IR: the maintenance regime for an N-reg is less complicated, particularly the paperwork side of things, and an FAA IR is, at the moment, easier to obtain than a JAA IR.
If you're going to do a (JAA or FAA) ATPL in the near future then license-wise it doesn't matter which PPL you get: any ICAO PPL will work as the entry for an FAA or JAA CPL/ATPL. But you're probably going to do some serious hour building, either here in Europe or in the US, and you need the proper license for that.
Flight training, be that JAA or FAA, is significantly cheaper in the US, even if you factor in extras such as the flight over there, M1 VISA, TSA, accommodation. But for a fair comparison, you need to factor in ALL costs, which almost nobody does. But a fair comparison should also include things like travel costs from your house to the local airport.
So if you have decided that you're going to train in the US (either JAA or FAA) try to spend as little money here in Europe as possible. TSA and the M1 VISA costs cannot be avoided, and you will also want to obtain the proper medical(s) (JAA class II, FAA class III) before you spend a lot of money, but for the rest, do it all in the US.
1st. Yes it is possible but only on a very few locations. From memory there's a place in Paris and one at Gatwick, that's it. And very expensive too. Whereas in the US any flight school can administer the FAA PPL exam for a modest fee, if necessary directly upon your arrival there. So don't bother trying to do it here.
2nd. If you want to that's very well possible. Obviously you need to go to a school which is able to offer you both JAA and FAA training. In addition to the normal JAA stuff, here's a short list of the extra things you need to do/have:
- I'm not entirely sure, but you might need an FAA class II medical instead of FAA class III. Anybody can confirm this?
- There are a few flying skills that are part of the FAA PPL syllabus, but not in the JAA one. Turns around a point for instance. Make sure these are covered.
- The FAA PPL includes the NQ by default, while JAA makes it optional. So five of your hours, including some x-country, and five of your solo landings need to be done at night.
- You need to do the single FAA PPL ground exam in addition to the JAA PPL ground exams.
- You need to do the FAA skills test in addition to the JAA skills test. Unless you're extremely lucky and able to find a dual JAA/FAA authorized examiner.
3rd. See earlier points. Don't do this.
4th. There's one in California. Anglo-American Aviation I think it's called. All the others are indeed in Florida.
If you're going to fly in Germany for fun, with a limited number of hours per year (say 50 maximum) then you'll probably rent, or buy into a group share. This means a D-reg, so you need a JAA license.
If you're going to fly in Germany but you plan on serious touring, including an IR, it may (note: "may") be advantageous for you to get an FAA PPL, and add an FAA IR to that. You also need to buy an N-reg outright, or a share in an N-reg, because there are only very few N-reg planes available for hire in Europe. There are two advantages to doing this over a JAA PPL/IR: the maintenance regime for an N-reg is less complicated, particularly the paperwork side of things, and an FAA IR is, at the moment, easier to obtain than a JAA IR.
If you're going to do a (JAA or FAA) ATPL in the near future then license-wise it doesn't matter which PPL you get: any ICAO PPL will work as the entry for an FAA or JAA CPL/ATPL. But you're probably going to do some serious hour building, either here in Europe or in the US, and you need the proper license for that.
Flight training, be that JAA or FAA, is significantly cheaper in the US, even if you factor in extras such as the flight over there, M1 VISA, TSA, accommodation. But for a fair comparison, you need to factor in ALL costs, which almost nobody does. But a fair comparison should also include things like travel costs from your house to the local airport.
So if you have decided that you're going to train in the US (either JAA or FAA) try to spend as little money here in Europe as possible. TSA and the M1 VISA costs cannot be avoided, and you will also want to obtain the proper medical(s) (JAA class II, FAA class III) before you spend a lot of money, but for the rest, do it all in the US.
1st. Yes it is possible but only on a very few locations. From memory there's a place in Paris and one at Gatwick, that's it. And very expensive too. Whereas in the US any flight school can administer the FAA PPL exam for a modest fee, if necessary directly upon your arrival there. So don't bother trying to do it here.
2nd. If you want to that's very well possible. Obviously you need to go to a school which is able to offer you both JAA and FAA training. In addition to the normal JAA stuff, here's a short list of the extra things you need to do/have:
- I'm not entirely sure, but you might need an FAA class II medical instead of FAA class III. Anybody can confirm this?
- There are a few flying skills that are part of the FAA PPL syllabus, but not in the JAA one. Turns around a point for instance. Make sure these are covered.
- The FAA PPL includes the NQ by default, while JAA makes it optional. So five of your hours, including some x-country, and five of your solo landings need to be done at night.
- You need to do the single FAA PPL ground exam in addition to the JAA PPL ground exams.
- You need to do the FAA skills test in addition to the JAA skills test. Unless you're extremely lucky and able to find a dual JAA/FAA authorized examiner.
3rd. See earlier points. Don't do this.
4th. There's one in California. Anglo-American Aviation I think it's called. All the others are indeed in Florida.
As usual a great post from BackPacker.....
Let's see if I can add something;
Keep in mind that a JAA PPL done in the USA is exactly that, a JAA PPL done in the US.
Meaning that you have NO flight experience in Europe and you knowledge of charts and airspace is purely academic, if even that.
That means that you would realistically need some hours of training before you can fly in Germany. Add that to the cost ( 5-7 hrs or so local and a small cross country).
Another point:
All the JAA schools in the US are certified through the UK CAA. Which means that your ground school and study materials are all aimed towards flying in the UK. I am pretty sure that English charts and airspace are different from those in Germany.
You may want to get in touch with AeronautX - Luftfahrtschule, Pilotenausbildung
They can help you out with FAA > JAA conversions.
I would recommend to do your PPL and IR in the US then conversions in JAA country.
Let's see if I can add something;
Keep in mind that a JAA PPL done in the USA is exactly that, a JAA PPL done in the US.
Meaning that you have NO flight experience in Europe and you knowledge of charts and airspace is purely academic, if even that.
That means that you would realistically need some hours of training before you can fly in Germany. Add that to the cost ( 5-7 hrs or so local and a small cross country).
Another point:
All the JAA schools in the US are certified through the UK CAA. Which means that your ground school and study materials are all aimed towards flying in the UK. I am pretty sure that English charts and airspace are different from those in Germany.
You may want to get in touch with AeronautX - Luftfahrtschule, Pilotenausbildung
They can help you out with FAA > JAA conversions.
I would recommend to do your PPL and IR in the US then conversions in JAA country.
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Good post from BP.
I've been around this block a few times since doing the FAA PPL some years ago.
Taking into account the present-day FAA options in Europe, my view is now that one should minimise one's European training expenditure and do all the pricey stuff (like flying) in the USA, and somewhere where the weather is nice so the project can be wrapped up on a predictable schedule.
Anything that could stretch the critical path and whose cost is not really relevant in the big picture should be done in the UK: written exam, medical, general reading and getting ready for the oral exam.
I would never go to the USA without having done the written here first. The FAA writtens are just 1 exam each but they are harder then one would think.
I don't think training in UK weather has any net benefit - aside from reducing one's IHT liability
You spend a pile more money, take a year to do a 6 week job, take 3 steps forward and 2 backwards... Anybody with a brain can be trained to read tafs and metars, and not fly in IMC, etc.
I've been around this block a few times since doing the FAA PPL some years ago.
Taking into account the present-day FAA options in Europe, my view is now that one should minimise one's European training expenditure and do all the pricey stuff (like flying) in the USA, and somewhere where the weather is nice so the project can be wrapped up on a predictable schedule.
Anything that could stretch the critical path and whose cost is not really relevant in the big picture should be done in the UK: written exam, medical, general reading and getting ready for the oral exam.
I would never go to the USA without having done the written here first. The FAA writtens are just 1 exam each but they are harder then one would think.
I don't think training in UK weather has any net benefit - aside from reducing one's IHT liability
You spend a pile more money, take a year to do a 6 week job, take 3 steps forward and 2 backwards... Anybody with a brain can be trained to read tafs and metars, and not fly in IMC, etc.
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I would never go to the USA without having done the written here first.
Studying the theory beforehand (from an appropriate UK-oriented book series, ie. Jeremy Pratt or Trevor Thom) is a must, of course.
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OK, sorry, I concur.
Work hard on the PPL Confuser, over here. A 90% pass rate of that will guarantee a pass of the exams.
Does seem odd that you can't sit the JAA exams in Germany and then complete the PPL at another JAA school!
Work hard on the PPL Confuser, over here. A 90% pass rate of that will guarantee a pass of the exams.
Does seem odd that you can't sit the JAA exams in Germany and then complete the PPL at another JAA school!
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Mmm. Even then. Go to the US to get the full FAA PPL, come back, do the theory exams (all seven of them) and the skills test, and you might still come out ahead, money-wise. And you end up with a full FAA PPL and a full EASA PPL, not a "based on" one.
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You come out even more ahead if you do the FAA PPL and then do the 100hr JAA PPL conversion route. Only 3 exams, IIRC.
It would be quite funny if one did the FAA PPL in the USA, flew around a bit, and then did the JAA PPL also in the USA using the above conversion route
It would be quite funny if one did the FAA PPL in the USA, flew around a bit, and then did the JAA PPL also in the USA using the above conversion route
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Thanks everyone for the feedback...
First of all, thank you all for yours post that were an enlightenment to me...
I already have the FAA groundschool theory, which I've been studying to take some doubts about aviation related issues. I will try to do get already in contact with some school in the U.S. I probably will go to the FAA+IR route, doing first the PPL training in the U.S then sitting for the JAA exams plus extra hours & 7 theoretical exams in German or doing JAA+FAA if any school can offer that option, and if there is enough time...
I think the flying part will be hard, and theoretical not so much, but mainly cause of the short time and learning curve! Many people in this forum said they achieved their license within 3 weeks, but I dunno if I will be so lucky cause I will only have time around July/August (hurricane and tornadoes season). I will train in the flight simulator but it's very limited cause of views, and one has to fixate in the instruments to manoeuvre, etc... thus more useful for the IR training.
The problem with flying is money/time relation. More money, more work, less time to fly... and vice versa. That's why so many prefer the full ATPL route which I will avoid cause I don't wanna stay bankrupt and dependable. There is still loads of time till summer, so I'd better start gathering the bucks, starting to study, contact the schools and then sort all those bureaucracy with VISA M1...
Florida or California sound like great places to do training... I hope they are safe in terms of neighbourhood... LOL!
I already have the FAA groundschool theory, which I've been studying to take some doubts about aviation related issues. I will try to do get already in contact with some school in the U.S. I probably will go to the FAA+IR route, doing first the PPL training in the U.S then sitting for the JAA exams plus extra hours & 7 theoretical exams in German or doing JAA+FAA if any school can offer that option, and if there is enough time...
I think the flying part will be hard, and theoretical not so much, but mainly cause of the short time and learning curve! Many people in this forum said they achieved their license within 3 weeks, but I dunno if I will be so lucky cause I will only have time around July/August (hurricane and tornadoes season). I will train in the flight simulator but it's very limited cause of views, and one has to fixate in the instruments to manoeuvre, etc... thus more useful for the IR training.
The problem with flying is money/time relation. More money, more work, less time to fly... and vice versa. That's why so many prefer the full ATPL route which I will avoid cause I don't wanna stay bankrupt and dependable. There is still loads of time till summer, so I'd better start gathering the bucks, starting to study, contact the schools and then sort all those bureaucracy with VISA M1...
Florida or California sound like great places to do training... I hope they are safe in terms of neighbourhood... LOL!
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If you go down the FAA PPL route as I have:
You must factor in the cost of a Restricted Radiotelephone Operators Permit. Its only $80 and as far as I can remember doesn't run out, but you need it to operate the radios legally outside the US. Also, do get your JAA RT licence either before or after you get back as there is a big difference in the use of radios. Its much more formalised here in Europe!
If you choose California near the coast then get the time of year right, the Marine layer can and will cause problems for you. Usually May and June but as always can be early or late.
PM me if you have any questions. Good luck!
Craigyd
You must factor in the cost of a Restricted Radiotelephone Operators Permit. Its only $80 and as far as I can remember doesn't run out, but you need it to operate the radios legally outside the US. Also, do get your JAA RT licence either before or after you get back as there is a big difference in the use of radios. Its much more formalised here in Europe!
If you choose California near the coast then get the time of year right, the Marine layer can and will cause problems for you. Usually May and June but as always can be early or late.
PM me if you have any questions. Good luck!
Craigyd
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I don't think radio use is an issue.
I did my IR in Arizona.
Yes it is true that America is less formal than the UK or Europe, but to be honest the standard of PPL VFR radio usage in the UK is so often so utterly appalling (and I am not talking about new pilots) that somebody who learnt the radio in Outer Mongolia is going to absolutely shine upon coming back to the UK.
The upsides of doing stuff in the USA have already been well covered. The principal downside for some people is that they will have trained in a different type of plane to what they will be flying over here (either as renters or as owners) and that is worth a good number of hours in itself.
This factor is the main reason why so many UK/European owners have been trying so hard, spending so much money, and so often unsuccessfully especially in recent years, to arrange for a European FAA checkride having trained here in their own plane. Most gave up and went to the USA in the end.
For somebody doing an ab initio PPL this is not really an issue, so long as they stick to some common type like a LA28 or C172.
I did my IR in Arizona.
Yes it is true that America is less formal than the UK or Europe, but to be honest the standard of PPL VFR radio usage in the UK is so often so utterly appalling (and I am not talking about new pilots) that somebody who learnt the radio in Outer Mongolia is going to absolutely shine upon coming back to the UK.
The upsides of doing stuff in the USA have already been well covered. The principal downside for some people is that they will have trained in a different type of plane to what they will be flying over here (either as renters or as owners) and that is worth a good number of hours in itself.
This factor is the main reason why so many UK/European owners have been trying so hard, spending so much money, and so often unsuccessfully especially in recent years, to arrange for a European FAA checkride having trained here in their own plane. Most gave up and went to the USA in the end.
For somebody doing an ab initio PPL this is not really an issue, so long as they stick to some common type like a LA28 or C172.
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Isn't that radio conversion or operationg thingy included in the FAA PPL license? I know there are some differences between US and EU (like requiring start up), etc... I had a chance to sit with an instructor for sim session and he was always correcting the way I said some stuff cause it was to U.S (fsim fault)...
I also find that US flying less restricted than EU, for example, in Germany it seems it's necessary to always have someone operating in the airport if there is any flight... In US they have "uncontrolled" airports... etc... The airspaces, airspace rules and airways are different it seems.. I don't think it will be hard to adapt though I heard many people complain that EU flying (special when near big airports) is very restricted and frustating. Same happens with fligh plans, etc...
But it will be a matter of getting use...
I also find that US flying less restricted than EU, for example, in Germany it seems it's necessary to always have someone operating in the airport if there is any flight... In US they have "uncontrolled" airports... etc... The airspaces, airspace rules and airways are different it seems.. I don't think it will be hard to adapt though I heard many people complain that EU flying (special when near big airports) is very restricted and frustating. Same happens with fligh plans, etc...
But it will be a matter of getting use...
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An FAA license holder flying an N-reg plane outside the USA, needs his personal radio license. This is obtainable from the FCC website for about $100 or something like that, and lasts about 10 years, IIRC.
Whether an FAA PPL holder flying a G-reg plane (which he can do, worldwide, VFR, ref ANO Article 26) needs the FAA radio license, I don't know. Probably does....
The N-reg aircraft needs another radio license; this is normally supplied (for a fee) by the US Trustee who owns it when based over here.
EU flying has a lot more red tape than American flying, but it isn't a big deal. One develops a process whereby one checks, pre-flight, stuff like PPR, Customs, etc all in one go. Obviously anybody flying just within the USA (which is what about 99.9% of US pilots do) doesn't need Customs, US airports are not PPR, doesn't need to check operating hours (most if not all US airports are open 24/7), etc. But he needs to get a briefing (weather, notams) which can be done with a phone call but which most "modern" US pilots get over the internet, and IIRC he needs a flight plan for IFR.
The "European red tape" can be a problem because actually flying somewhere useful is not taught in the PPL
But one can pick it up by asking on the internet (like here ).
Whether an FAA PPL holder flying a G-reg plane (which he can do, worldwide, VFR, ref ANO Article 26) needs the FAA radio license, I don't know. Probably does....
The N-reg aircraft needs another radio license; this is normally supplied (for a fee) by the US Trustee who owns it when based over here.
EU flying has a lot more red tape than American flying, but it isn't a big deal. One develops a process whereby one checks, pre-flight, stuff like PPR, Customs, etc all in one go. Obviously anybody flying just within the USA (which is what about 99.9% of US pilots do) doesn't need Customs, US airports are not PPR, doesn't need to check operating hours (most if not all US airports are open 24/7), etc. But he needs to get a briefing (weather, notams) which can be done with a phone call but which most "modern" US pilots get over the internet, and IIRC he needs a flight plan for IFR.
The "European red tape" can be a problem because actually flying somewhere useful is not taught in the PPL
But one can pick it up by asking on the internet (like here ).
Yes it is true that America is less formal than the UK or Europe, but to be honest the standard of PPL VFR radio usage in the UK is so often so utterly appalling (and I am not talking about new pilots) that somebody who learnt the radio in Outer Mongolia is going to absolutely shine upon coming back to the UK
