Nppl? Safe?
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Long live the NPPL
I went to NPPL from PPL as the medical cost to keep my PPL was 20 hrs flying per year.(£800=20x£40/hr)
I don't fly with many passengers and all flights are in the UK
A no brainer,as they say!
Lister
I don't fly with many passengers and all flights are in the UK
A no brainer,as they say!
Lister
Join Date: Oct 2005
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So far as I am concerned, unless you really need the lower medical standard of the NPPL, it is otherwise a waste of money. You are much better advised to spend just a little extra and get the full PPL.
I also agree with Big Pistons regarding the French Brevet de Bas. If EASA should eventually decide to foist upon us a euro-ised version of this grossly inadequate 'qualification', then don't touch it with a barge pole.
Broomstick.
so you think I and all other nppl licence holders are sub standard pilots compared to you ?
I also agree with Big Pistons regarding the French Brevet de Bas. If EASA should eventually decide to foist upon us a euro-ised version of this grossly inadequate 'qualification', then don't touch it with a barge pole.
Broomstick.
so you think I and all other nppl licence holders are sub standard pilots compared to you ?
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I also agree with Big Pistons regarding the French Brevet de Bas. If EASA should eventually decide to foist upon us a euro-ised version of this grossly inadequate 'qualification', then don't touch it with a barge pole.
Broomstick.
Broomstick.
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I speak as someone who did the NPPL (SSEP) when it was first introduced, mainly as it was a little cheaper. The standard in respect of the NST and GST are exactly the same, so I don't think safety is an issue here.
I then upgraded to a JAR PPL which proved to me something of a headache. E.g. the QXC for a NPPL only needs to be 100nm compared to 150nm. Guess what, mine was 120nm so I had to do another for the PPL! Despite having flown all over the south of England with the NPPL!
No issue with groundschool - same 7 exams. (Microlights you do need to do additional exams, can't recall which ones).
But... the biggest issue is that NPPL Ltd who administer the NPPL licensing and the CAA do not communicate terribly well in my experience. The CAA had no record of my groundshool passes. They accepted I had an NPPL and that I must have passed the exams to get it, but they wouldn't issue the JAR PPL as I couldn't provide evidence of the groundschool passes! Fortunately a very helpful lady at NPPL e-mailed me the scanned copy of my groundschool records which I was able to supply to the CAA and all was well.
My advice; unless medical issues prevent it do the PPL from the outset unless you are cast iron sure you will never want an IMC, night, MEP etc... Unless you achieve the NPPL in minimum hours the savings are unlikely to be that much.
I then upgraded to a JAR PPL which proved to me something of a headache. E.g. the QXC for a NPPL only needs to be 100nm compared to 150nm. Guess what, mine was 120nm so I had to do another for the PPL! Despite having flown all over the south of England with the NPPL!
No issue with groundschool - same 7 exams. (Microlights you do need to do additional exams, can't recall which ones).
But... the biggest issue is that NPPL Ltd who administer the NPPL licensing and the CAA do not communicate terribly well in my experience. The CAA had no record of my groundshool passes. They accepted I had an NPPL and that I must have passed the exams to get it, but they wouldn't issue the JAR PPL as I couldn't provide evidence of the groundschool passes! Fortunately a very helpful lady at NPPL e-mailed me the scanned copy of my groundschool records which I was able to supply to the CAA and all was well.
My advice; unless medical issues prevent it do the PPL from the outset unless you are cast iron sure you will never want an IMC, night, MEP etc... Unless you achieve the NPPL in minimum hours the savings are unlikely to be that much.
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"But... the biggest issue is that NPPL Ltd who administer the NPPL licensing and the CAA do not communicate terribly well in my experience. The CAA had no record of my groundshool passes. They accepted I had an NPPL and that I must have passed the exams to get it, but they wouldn't issue the JAR PPL as I couldn't provide evidence of the groundschool passes! Fortunately a very helpful lady at NPPL e-mailed me the scanned copy of my groundschool records which I was able to supply to the CAA and all was well."
The applications for NPPLs (except microlights) are processed by the LAA under the service agrement with NPLG Ltd (not NPPL Ltd, BTW). LAA is one of the three shareholders in NPLG Ltd, along wth the BGA and AOPA. After checking, the LAA retains the records of the relevant paperwork before sending the application to the CAA for issue of the licence. NPLG Ltd therefore does the admin work and record keeping on behalf of the CAA. All records are scanned for storage. I trust it was one of the ladies at the LAA (acting in the name of NPLG Ltd) who helped you out. We try to provide a good service.
Company Secretary, NPLG Ltd (formerly Chairman, 2002-2007)
The applications for NPPLs (except microlights) are processed by the LAA under the service agrement with NPLG Ltd (not NPPL Ltd, BTW). LAA is one of the three shareholders in NPLG Ltd, along wth the BGA and AOPA. After checking, the LAA retains the records of the relevant paperwork before sending the application to the CAA for issue of the licence. NPLG Ltd therefore does the admin work and record keeping on behalf of the CAA. All records are scanned for storage. I trust it was one of the ladies at the LAA (acting in the name of NPLG Ltd) who helped you out. We try to provide a good service.
Company Secretary, NPLG Ltd (formerly Chairman, 2002-2007)
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David - it was indeed and the service received from yourselves was first class.
My gripe was more with the CAA who did not seem to know how to sort things out or indeed get in touch with yourselves. Makes you wonder what their extortionate fees are for.
My gripe was more with the CAA who did not seem to know how to sort things out or indeed get in touch with yourselves. Makes you wonder what their extortionate fees are for.
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when I received my nppl m, it was for life, pending periodical medicals, then the goal posts got moved, and a revalidation has to be taken, although I have never been informed of this officially, it wouldn't hurt, the CAA / NPPL people advising all nppl holders of the change.
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IMHO it would be mad to have a lifetime license without a revalidation flight at regular intervals. Anybody believing otherwise should go for a flight and see/listen to some of the stuff that goes on out there.
I also think the flight should have a FAIL option but that's another story
I also think the flight should have a FAIL option but that's another story
why did the NPPL(M) have it's goal posts moved? The PPL(M) or D licence has never had (still doesn't have) a revalidation requirement and, if there had been a good safety based reason for the NPPL to be changed, it would have been imposed upon the PPL(M) licence at the same time. This change went against the Government guidance in that rule changes are supposed to be measured and proportional to the need AND a full impact analysis carried out and published before infliction. This didn't happen.
Can you really be prosecuted for breaking a rule that was brought in by breaking the rules?
Can you really be prosecuted for breaking a rule that was brought in by breaking the rules?
Some years ago microlights were not aeroplanes, they did not need a licence and operated for some time this way. Unfortunately there were a number of fatal accidents and as the devices involved were not legally aeroplanes the Ministry of Transport required some level of regulation. The BMAA dida good job of this and the D rating was born requiring a minimum of legal change; with it came the second tier medical or declaration for which there was absolutely no provision in the ANO.
When AOPA who dragged the PPL into the JAR realised they were not in control of the final outcome, started to attack the CAA re the JAA licence and were told to go away and not come back unless they had something constructive to say. They came back with the NPPL which was a reasonable proposal that could have been implemented with minimal law changes and the existing medical declaration arrangements.
Unfortunately a recently retired RAF Office seeking to make his name in the CAA, grabbed this as the ideal opportunity. All the initial work was done by people with no experience or knowledge of licensing, resulting in a tranche of unnecessary and bungled legislation. Realising that after the first burst of old group A licence holders who couldn't pass a medical had past, there would only be a limited ab-initio flow, the SLMG and Microlights were dragged in to make the statistics look better. Then followed the biggest dose of nonsensical beaurocracy and bungling ever seen ion the history of aviation.
All that was needed was the standard ICAO requirement (Because nobody does it in less) a second tier medical which already existed and a limitation at the UK FIR boundary.
No, the standard is exactly the same. Nobody has ever brief examiners to do anything different, or should I say examiners have never even been brief with regard to the NPPL!
When AOPA who dragged the PPL into the JAR realised they were not in control of the final outcome, started to attack the CAA re the JAA licence and were told to go away and not come back unless they had something constructive to say. They came back with the NPPL which was a reasonable proposal that could have been implemented with minimal law changes and the existing medical declaration arrangements.
Unfortunately a recently retired RAF Office seeking to make his name in the CAA, grabbed this as the ideal opportunity. All the initial work was done by people with no experience or knowledge of licensing, resulting in a tranche of unnecessary and bungled legislation. Realising that after the first burst of old group A licence holders who couldn't pass a medical had past, there would only be a limited ab-initio flow, the SLMG and Microlights were dragged in to make the statistics look better. Then followed the biggest dose of nonsensical beaurocracy and bungling ever seen ion the history of aviation.
All that was needed was the standard ICAO requirement (Because nobody does it in less) a second tier medical which already existed and a limitation at the UK FIR boundary.
Is there any difference in safety between a NPPL and JAA PPL
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I have a few friends that have gone from owning a microlight to getting a group A aircraft and the NPPL has been an excellent way of getting to fly the new machine in a short time period. My friends have then gone on to the JAR PPL later.
Interesting though about the easy medical, my son has just completed his NPPL M and our GP wanted more money to sign the form than it cost for a class 2.
Interesting though about the easy medical, my son has just completed his NPPL M and our GP wanted more money to sign the form than it cost for a class 2.
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Interesting though about the easy medical, my son has just completed his NPPL M and our GP wanted more money to sign the form than it cost for a class 2.
My GP signs mine each year with a smile & £15.
Is there nothing that can be done about ripoffs like this?
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My NPPL medical was most amusing. I was a custody sergeant at the time. When a friendly police surgeon attended for one of our detainees - "Doc - whilst you're here......" Cost - £ZERO!!!
I hasten to add, he did complete a proper medical, not just sign the form!
I hasten to add, he did complete a proper medical, not just sign the form!
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a friendly police surgeon attended for one of our detainees - "Doc - whilst you're here......"
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Please don't knock the NPPL...
For some of us it's a real dream come true!
Ever since I can remember I've stared skyward.
Always had a passion for aircraft.
Wanted to fly so much it ached...
Then - age 16 - RAF said - 'sorry - eyesight no good'...
Followed by asking about PPL - told - 'sorry - no way you'll get through medical' (one really good eye - one very poor - even with corrective lenses).
Problem is that I had a difference in long-sightedness in my eyes when I was young - your brain concentrates on the signal from the good eye and the signal from the poor starts to get filtered out - although peripheral performance remains relatively good.
Told basically to give up on the idea.
But the passion continued. Stayed connected with aviation through joining the RAFVR(T) and eventually commanded an Air Cadet Squadron at quite an early age - so at least got some Chippy flying from time to time.
Few years ago was nagged to have another go and went through the JAR medical - failed on eyesight again.
Then I heard about the new National Private Pilot's Licence.
Passed the medical for DVLA Class one equivalent (yes - was marginal on my left eye - oh - and it turned out my GP was also a pilot and AME!) and have been doing my NPPL with some lovely people at RAF Halton Aeroplane Club.
My eyesight has been no problem at all (one brilliant eye - one marginal) - I can easily spot other a/c and distance/speed perception absolutely no problem at all.
Training/Examination wise I'm doing everything I'd need to do for the JAR licence and expect to be examined to the same standard.
Went solo end of September and passed my Navigation Skills Test just over a week ago. If weather gets it's act together am about to do solo cross country's and the Solo X-Country Qualifier - for which I'll be doing the same route as the Halton JAR boys - Halton - Leicester - Gloucester - Halton. Yes - I could do a shorter route - but I want to do the full monty. After all - I don't intend sticking to local area once I've got my licence!
Funnily enough - I think the NPPL course scores here as you have to pass the Navigation Skills part of the GFT *before* you can do any solo X-Country - far more sensible way of doing it than at the end of your course (and after your qualifying Cross Country).
Hopefully qual early next year (should be at around 50 hours) - then I'm onto tail draggers and hopefully some solid aerobatics training (did a rather ace aeros sortie in a friends Extra 300 last year and *loved* it!!).
Always dreamt of doing this - but until the advent of the NPPL was always told it would be impossible.
If I can I'm aiming to undertake IMC/IR training (even though I can't 'qualify' for the rating) simply out of interest and in order to make me a safer/better pilot.
BIG THANK YOU to everyone that helped make the NPPL possible. Sometimes dreams do come true - and I'm still pinching myself
So - please - NPPLs are NOT second class pilots!
Iain
Ever since I can remember I've stared skyward.
Always had a passion for aircraft.
Wanted to fly so much it ached...
Then - age 16 - RAF said - 'sorry - eyesight no good'...
Followed by asking about PPL - told - 'sorry - no way you'll get through medical' (one really good eye - one very poor - even with corrective lenses).
Problem is that I had a difference in long-sightedness in my eyes when I was young - your brain concentrates on the signal from the good eye and the signal from the poor starts to get filtered out - although peripheral performance remains relatively good.
Told basically to give up on the idea.
But the passion continued. Stayed connected with aviation through joining the RAFVR(T) and eventually commanded an Air Cadet Squadron at quite an early age - so at least got some Chippy flying from time to time.
Few years ago was nagged to have another go and went through the JAR medical - failed on eyesight again.
Then I heard about the new National Private Pilot's Licence.
Passed the medical for DVLA Class one equivalent (yes - was marginal on my left eye - oh - and it turned out my GP was also a pilot and AME!) and have been doing my NPPL with some lovely people at RAF Halton Aeroplane Club.
My eyesight has been no problem at all (one brilliant eye - one marginal) - I can easily spot other a/c and distance/speed perception absolutely no problem at all.
Training/Examination wise I'm doing everything I'd need to do for the JAR licence and expect to be examined to the same standard.
Went solo end of September and passed my Navigation Skills Test just over a week ago. If weather gets it's act together am about to do solo cross country's and the Solo X-Country Qualifier - for which I'll be doing the same route as the Halton JAR boys - Halton - Leicester - Gloucester - Halton. Yes - I could do a shorter route - but I want to do the full monty. After all - I don't intend sticking to local area once I've got my licence!
Funnily enough - I think the NPPL course scores here as you have to pass the Navigation Skills part of the GFT *before* you can do any solo X-Country - far more sensible way of doing it than at the end of your course (and after your qualifying Cross Country).
Hopefully qual early next year (should be at around 50 hours) - then I'm onto tail draggers and hopefully some solid aerobatics training (did a rather ace aeros sortie in a friends Extra 300 last year and *loved* it!!).
Always dreamt of doing this - but until the advent of the NPPL was always told it would be impossible.
If I can I'm aiming to undertake IMC/IR training (even though I can't 'qualify' for the rating) simply out of interest and in order to make me a safer/better pilot.
BIG THANK YOU to everyone that helped make the NPPL possible. Sometimes dreams do come true - and I'm still pinching myself
So - please - NPPLs are NOT second class pilots!
Iain
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I find the assertion that the NPPL is somehow "unsafe" rather rediculous. I know several NPPLs, all are perfectly safe, sensible pilots who are no different skills-wise to those of us with the JAR ticket.
Much of the training is the same, so I'm not sure what the problem is. The thing is it's great for people who for whatever reason cannot hold a Class 2, or cannot be bothered with the hassle. It must be a boon in that respect.
Since all of my flying is in the UK I would've went for the NPPL option, but being unable to add a CPL/IR onto that I had to take the JAR option instead.
NPPLs are certainly not second-class pilots, nor is the NPPL an "inferior" license compared to the JAR. What rediculous snobbery.
Smithy
Much of the training is the same, so I'm not sure what the problem is. The thing is it's great for people who for whatever reason cannot hold a Class 2, or cannot be bothered with the hassle. It must be a boon in that respect.
Since all of my flying is in the UK I would've went for the NPPL option, but being unable to add a CPL/IR onto that I had to take the JAR option instead.
NPPLs are certainly not second-class pilots, nor is the NPPL an "inferior" license compared to the JAR. What rediculous snobbery.
Smithy
