Safetycom and 129.825 - which one?
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Safetycom and 129.825 - which one?
I'm currently learning in a C42 3-axis microlight, and being the studious type, I have been boning up on CAP413 in readiness for my RT course and exam which is coming up in a couple of weeks.
Now, I'm aware of 129.825Mhz being the microlight A/G frequency for use at locations where there is no other ground station, but how does this co-exist with the CAP412 instruction to use SAFETYCOM frequency 135.475Mhz in such circumstances?
Are they dropping the 129.825 freq?
Now, I'm aware of 129.825Mhz being the microlight A/G frequency for use at locations where there is no other ground station, but how does this co-exist with the CAP412 instruction to use SAFETYCOM frequency 135.475Mhz in such circumstances?
Are they dropping the 129.825 freq?
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I would contend that at the very least Safetcom might be the better one to use.
129.825mhz is massively abused and frankly some of the users seem unable to respect proper R/T and consider it their personal "chat about absolute anything" frequency. There are SOME actual legit pilots out there that try to use it for their field's circuit within range, and if at any altitude get stamped on by Joe Bloggs 1 chatting to Joe Blogs 2 about the weather / view / traffic on the M5/4/42 etc.
If these microlight pilots are as lax about their flying as they are about their R/T then frankly they shouldn't be licence holders.
Top marks for studying up on the correct R/T and keep up the good work
129.825mhz is massively abused and frankly some of the users seem unable to respect proper R/T and consider it their personal "chat about absolute anything" frequency. There are SOME actual legit pilots out there that try to use it for their field's circuit within range, and if at any altitude get stamped on by Joe Bloggs 1 chatting to Joe Blogs 2 about the weather / view / traffic on the M5/4/42 etc.
If these microlight pilots are as lax about their flying as they are about their R/T then frankly they shouldn't be licence holders.
Top marks for studying up on the correct R/T and keep up the good work
AFIR.
The 129.82 frequency is ONLY for those [training] microlight whose a'fields are promulgated.
It's not a free call frequency for anyone. Though as you say: Abused all the time.
I find Safetycom getting that way too, which means jolly old GA pilots are tarred with the same brush as those microlighters.
Safetycom is a blind call as explained in Cap 413, QUOTE
....Radiotelephony Reports at Unattended Aerodromes
6.1 Introduction
6.1.1 Where an aeronautical communications frequency is allocated for use at a United
Kingdom aerodrome, all RTF communications are to be conducted on the allocated
frequency. For licensed aerodromes, allocated frequencies are promulgated in the UK
AIP. A common frequency known as ‘Safetycom’ is made available for use at
aerodromes where no other frequency is allocated (UK AIP GEN Section refers) to
enable pilots to broadcast their intentions to other aircraft that may be operating on, or
in the vicinity of, the aerodrome .
6.1.2 At some UK aerodromes, air traffic movements may occur outside the promulgated
hours of watch of Air Traffic Services (ATS). In order to improve the safety of these
aerodrome operations, pilots should broadcast information on their intentions to other
aircraft that may be operating on, or in the vicinity, of the aerodrome.
6.1.3 The phraseology to be used at an unattended aerodrome, as described in this section, is
not to be used at aerodromes with ATS in attendance. Where ATS is provided, the
relevant ATS unit will issue appropriate instructions.
6.1.4 Pilot reports are described for a Standard Overhead Join. This procedure will allow
pilots to determine the runway in use and to orientate themselves with the circuit
direction and other traffic. As specific joining and circuit procedures exist for some
aerodromes, pilots should refer to the UKAIP to establish the procedure to be
followed.
6.1.5 Unattended aerodrome reports are made at the discretion of the pilot. However, to
ensure the traffic awareness of other pilots is correctly maintained, if a pilot elects to
make reports, all those reports not listed as ‘optional’ should be included. Optional
calls (illustrated in paragraph 6.3) may be included if additional traffic information is
likely to assist traffic organisation or to enhance safety.
6.1.6 Monitoring of unattended aerodrome reports is not a substitute for visual observation
and pilots must maintain traffic awareness and lookout even when making such calls,
as not all aircraft may be monitoring radio broadcasts.
6.1.7 Transmission of unattended aerodrome reports does not confer any right-of-way. Pilots
shall comply at all times with the............
The 129.82 frequency is ONLY for those [training] microlight whose a'fields are promulgated.
It's not a free call frequency for anyone. Though as you say: Abused all the time.
I find Safetycom getting that way too, which means jolly old GA pilots are tarred with the same brush as those microlighters.
Safetycom is a blind call as explained in Cap 413, QUOTE
....Radiotelephony Reports at Unattended Aerodromes
6.1 Introduction
6.1.1 Where an aeronautical communications frequency is allocated for use at a United
Kingdom aerodrome, all RTF communications are to be conducted on the allocated
frequency. For licensed aerodromes, allocated frequencies are promulgated in the UK
AIP. A common frequency known as ‘Safetycom’ is made available for use at
aerodromes where no other frequency is allocated (UK AIP GEN Section refers) to
enable pilots to broadcast their intentions to other aircraft that may be operating on, or
in the vicinity of, the aerodrome .
6.1.2 At some UK aerodromes, air traffic movements may occur outside the promulgated
hours of watch of Air Traffic Services (ATS). In order to improve the safety of these
aerodrome operations, pilots should broadcast information on their intentions to other
aircraft that may be operating on, or in the vicinity, of the aerodrome.
6.1.3 The phraseology to be used at an unattended aerodrome, as described in this section, is
not to be used at aerodromes with ATS in attendance. Where ATS is provided, the
relevant ATS unit will issue appropriate instructions.
6.1.4 Pilot reports are described for a Standard Overhead Join. This procedure will allow
pilots to determine the runway in use and to orientate themselves with the circuit
direction and other traffic. As specific joining and circuit procedures exist for some
aerodromes, pilots should refer to the UKAIP to establish the procedure to be
followed.
6.1.5 Unattended aerodrome reports are made at the discretion of the pilot. However, to
ensure the traffic awareness of other pilots is correctly maintained, if a pilot elects to
make reports, all those reports not listed as ‘optional’ should be included. Optional
calls (illustrated in paragraph 6.3) may be included if additional traffic information is
likely to assist traffic organisation or to enhance safety.
6.1.6 Monitoring of unattended aerodrome reports is not a substitute for visual observation
and pilots must maintain traffic awareness and lookout even when making such calls,
as not all aircraft may be monitoring radio broadcasts.
6.1.7 Transmission of unattended aerodrome reports does not confer any right-of-way. Pilots
shall comply at all times with the............
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Hi Sandbagsteve,
First off, good luck with your RT Exam. If it’s like the one I did years ago you will be qualified (at least in radio terms) to fly airways etc. The joys of a one size fits all VHF radio qualification.
The ‘abuse’ of 129.825Mhz and to a certain extent Safetycom, is due to the fact that in the UK there is no legitimate air to air frequency allocated. Microlighters do tend to fly in company more than the heavier end of GA, whether they are going to Blois or having a summer evening bimble around the local patch.
On the air to air front, the internationally popular 123.450Mhz has been annexed by someone in the UK. This lead to lots of threat and bluster from the Powers That Be to prosecute anyone using it in the UK. It’s a good job those naughty radio waves from foreign air to air transmissions know that they have to stop at the FIR Boundary!
Safetycom came about because of the large number of farm strips that had no radio facility. It has been one of the most successfully initiatives in that area of flying in recent years. In answer to the original question, I don’t think either Safetycom or 129.825Mhz are going away in the near future. The only thing to watch for is that Offcom don’t mandate a change to CAP413 that requires initial contact to include Aircraft Reg and Credit Card number!
Safe Flying,
Richard W.
First off, good luck with your RT Exam. If it’s like the one I did years ago you will be qualified (at least in radio terms) to fly airways etc. The joys of a one size fits all VHF radio qualification.
The ‘abuse’ of 129.825Mhz and to a certain extent Safetycom, is due to the fact that in the UK there is no legitimate air to air frequency allocated. Microlighters do tend to fly in company more than the heavier end of GA, whether they are going to Blois or having a summer evening bimble around the local patch.
On the air to air front, the internationally popular 123.450Mhz has been annexed by someone in the UK. This lead to lots of threat and bluster from the Powers That Be to prosecute anyone using it in the UK. It’s a good job those naughty radio waves from foreign air to air transmissions know that they have to stop at the FIR Boundary!
Safetycom came about because of the large number of farm strips that had no radio facility. It has been one of the most successfully initiatives in that area of flying in recent years. In answer to the original question, I don’t think either Safetycom or 129.825Mhz are going away in the near future. The only thing to watch for is that Offcom don’t mandate a change to CAP413 that requires initial contact to include Aircraft Reg and Credit Card number!
Safe Flying,
Richard W.
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Well, just reading the course material now, and it does seem a bit daunting considering I'll only be using a small part of it regularly. But as you say, it's better to be prepared and not need it than need it and be unprepared.
It's still not clear in my mind. 413 seems to suggest that when local to a field with promulgated freq's, and there is no watch active, that safetycom is the way to go. It makes no mention at all of unlicensed fields.
The obvious danger, in my mind, is that someone has announced his intentions/position etc on 135.475, and some other poor sod is oblivious to this, as his radio is listening to 129.825.
It would make sense to me that 129.825 is the way to go if the field is not listed/licended in the AIP, and 135.475 for licensed fields where no ground station is active?
There doesn't seem clear guidance (that I can see) from an overseeing authority on when/where these two freq's should be employed.
It's still not clear in my mind. 413 seems to suggest that when local to a field with promulgated freq's, and there is no watch active, that safetycom is the way to go. It makes no mention at all of unlicensed fields.
The obvious danger, in my mind, is that someone has announced his intentions/position etc on 135.475, and some other poor sod is oblivious to this, as his radio is listening to 129.825.
It would make sense to me that 129.825 is the way to go if the field is not listed/licended in the AIP, and 135.475 for licensed fields where no ground station is active?
There doesn't seem clear guidance (that I can see) from an overseeing authority on when/where these two freq's should be employed.
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Presumably when you fly somewhere, you know where you're going?
If so why not ring ahead and confirm with your destination the frequency they'll be using?
Same for any other sites enroute that you might be casually dropping in to.
Cusco
If so why not ring ahead and confirm with your destination the frequency they'll be using?
Same for any other sites enroute that you might be casually dropping in to.
Cusco
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Hopefully he'll be in a minority: Either way, you're VFR: Use the Mk 1 eyeball........
One other point: I use safetycom when approaching our strip which has no radio. At 2000ft (Max promulgated alt for safetycom, )at least 6 other strips using safetycom are in range.
Be sure therefore to mention name of strip at beginning of your Tx
(" Dingleydell traffic") : and, for good measure repeat it at the end of your transmission as they do in USA on unicom. Also mentioning runway you intend to use " Dingleydell traffic, G-ABCD downwind to land runway27, dingleydell traffic" removes all doubt about which strip/runway you're approaching.
BTW Safetycom is not an enroute frequency: you shouldn't hear it beyond 10NM from relevant strip.
Cusco
Edit for accuracy
One other point: I use safetycom when approaching our strip which has no radio. At 2000ft (Max promulgated alt for safetycom, )at least 6 other strips using safetycom are in range.
Be sure therefore to mention name of strip at beginning of your Tx
(" Dingleydell traffic") : and, for good measure repeat it at the end of your transmission as they do in USA on unicom. Also mentioning runway you intend to use " Dingleydell traffic, G-ABCD downwind to land runway27, dingleydell traffic" removes all doubt about which strip/runway you're approaching.
BTW Safetycom is not an enroute frequency: you shouldn't hear it beyond 10NM from relevant strip.
Cusco
Edit for accuracy
Last edited by Cusco; 25th Oct 2009 at 15:15.
The ‘abuse’ of 129.825Mhz and to a certain extent Safetycom, is due to the fact that in the UK there is no legitimate air to air frequency allocated.
BTW.
There IS a difference, reading the Cap, between 'Licenced Aerodromes' and 'Aerodromes'.
Any field used by an aeroplane is 'an aerodrome', so all strips or even lesser used places are covered by the recommendation to use Safetycom.
Air Law protection to their circuit traffic, etc, also applies, I gather.
The microlight frequency IS NOT your free choice to use as & when it pleases you; it's only for two way RT for where promulgated - whatever RT use guidance you may care to disregard in future.
That's why 135.47 is such a boon now it's here: I suggest you do try & use it correctly for my sake and for other legitimate pilots using our bit of airspace.
There IS a difference, reading the Cap, between 'Licenced Aerodromes' and 'Aerodromes'.
Any field used by an aeroplane is 'an aerodrome', so all strips or even lesser used places are covered by the recommendation to use Safetycom.
Air Law protection to their circuit traffic, etc, also applies, I gather.
The microlight frequency IS NOT your free choice to use as & when it pleases you; it's only for two way RT for where promulgated - whatever RT use guidance you may care to disregard in future.
That's why 135.47 is such a boon now it's here: I suggest you do try & use it correctly for my sake and for other legitimate pilots using our bit of airspace.
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That's why 135.47 is such a boon now it's here: I suggest you do try & use it correctly for my sake and for other legitimate pilots using our bit of airspace.
Sadly there are still some legitimate pilots who will not use Safetycom.
We had a group at our strip who resolutely refused to use safetycom on approach despite the recommendation being in our airfield guidelines and agreed by the five other aircraft based there.
Fortunately they have now left and uniformity and common sense now reigns.
Cusco
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Isn't the answer to the original question about what frequency to use for a ground station that you look in Pooleys / VFE Flight Guide, or Lockyears, before you set off & that tells you which one to use when appropriate?
I did a quick straw poll in the flight guide & could only see Cromer using the Microlight frequency for A/G, most put up Safetycom (eg Garforth, Garston Farm).
If you're going to farm strip then I'd suggest ringing ahead to get a view of what to do if you can't see it in the book. It's worth remembering that farm strips tend not to have a lot of traffic & it's easy to fall into the trap of thinking you're the only one around when flying from one, so calling ahead at least alerts the owner to the fact you'll be calling by.
The farm strip I fly from is under a MATZ so we have to call on their frequency anyway, again it's worth checking before you leave if your destination is in a zone.
After that, it is down to keeping a good look out as Cusco suggests
Finals 19,
What about the non-radio guys? 
I did a quick straw poll in the flight guide & could only see Cromer using the Microlight frequency for A/G, most put up Safetycom (eg Garforth, Garston Farm).
If you're going to farm strip then I'd suggest ringing ahead to get a view of what to do if you can't see it in the book. It's worth remembering that farm strips tend not to have a lot of traffic & it's easy to fall into the trap of thinking you're the only one around when flying from one, so calling ahead at least alerts the owner to the fact you'll be calling by.
The farm strip I fly from is under a MATZ so we have to call on their frequency anyway, again it's worth checking before you leave if your destination is in a zone.
After that, it is down to keeping a good look out as Cusco suggests
Finals 19,
If these microlight pilots are as lax about their flying as they are about their R/T then frankly they shouldn't be licence holders.
Avoid imitations
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and 135.475 for licensed fields where no ground station is active?
Watch out for hellicopters who use 122.950 for similar purposes; and watch out for gliders who use 129.975 for similar purposes.
129.825 may only be used by microlights for communications connected to microlights; 122.950 may only be used by helicopters at sites where a permanent frequency is not allocated .
129.975 may only be used by gliders operating in the 'local area' of a gliding site (NB there are several other frequencies eg 130.125 allocated to BGA gliding operations.)
Oh and 122.475 for use by balloons to communicate with their ground recovery parties.
129.825 may only be used by microlights for communications connected to microlights; 122.950 may only be used by helicopters at sites where a permanent frequency is not allocated .
129.975 may only be used by gliders operating in the 'local area' of a gliding site (NB there are several other frequencies eg 130.125 allocated to BGA gliding operations.)
Oh and 122.475 for use by balloons to communicate with their ground recovery parties.
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But the crux of the point is that radio can be pretty useless for warning you of traffic - there are simply too many legitimate options that can be used. Just to add to the mix my local gliding field use 130.1 and 130.4 - in the same area you could use the local class D or the regional control. But there are fields using Safetycom and the microlight frequency. So one area and a choice of 6 frequencies.
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If I fly to an area with suspected "frequency confusion" I make sure to ask about this in the PPR to be aware of the confusion and naturally this will hopefully sharpen my eyeball and my judgement when I arrive.
I guess CAA could regulate more, but I don't think they should when it comes to farm fields, microlight fields etc. Everything can't be "perfect" and we have to use our own judgement.
I guess CAA could regulate more, but I don't think they should when it comes to farm fields, microlight fields etc. Everything can't be "perfect" and we have to use our own judgement.
Oh Shazbat!
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Can someone please tell me which of these I should use to chat to my friends?
