Renewing single pilot IMC priviliges for ATPL

[tunalic2]

JAA ATPL with Lapsed SPA IR (also lapsed FAA CPL IR)

Hi Folks
Whats the cheapest way too get IMC priviliges on SPA and keep them valid?

is it redo my FAA IR (BFR medical and a flight test) and then have IMC issued on the back of it?
Redo my JAA SPA IR?
Fly the test for an IMC? (will it disappear?)

I would undoubtedly need some practice to pass any of the above and I have access to an aircraft.

I know this is a regular question and have searched but yet to find some good threads to point me in the right direction. I know LASORS says it all but I don't have a copy to hand and trying to read it online sends me barmy

Cheers
T2

[JW411]

I had it in my mind that if you have a CAA National ATPL (not a JAR ATPL) then you have IMC priviledges as long as that National ATPL remains valid.

I am probably wrong!

[Barcli]

I believe if you have JAA or CAA ATPL current ( ie multi-crew IR) you have priveleges of an IMC rating automatically

[Jumbo Driver]

It is my understanding that IMC privileges attach only to the CAA CPL/ATPL and not to the JAR-FCL CPL/ATPL - see the extracts below ...

PART A – FLIGHT CREW LICENCES

Section 1 – United Kingdom Licences

Commercial Pilot’s Licence (Aeroplanes)
Privileges:

(1) The holder of a Commercial Pilot’s Licence (Aeroplanes) shall be entitled to exercise the privileges of a United Kingdom Private Pilot’s Licence (Aeroplanes) which includes an instrument meteorological conditions rating (aeroplanes) and a night rating (aeroplanes) or night qualification (aeroplane), and shall be entitled to fly as pilot in command of an aeroplane:

(a) on a special VFR flight notwithstanding that the flight visibility is less than 3 km;
(b) when the aeroplane is taking off or landing at any place notwithstanding that the flight visibility below cloud is less than 1800 metres.

Section 2 – JAR–FCL Licences

Commercial Pilot Licence (Aeroplane)
Privileges and conditions:

(1) Subject to any conditions specified in respect of the licence, the privileges of the holder of a Commercial Pilot Licence (Aeroplane) are to:

(a) exercise all the privileges of the holder of a JAR–FCL Private Pilot Licence (Aeroplane) which includes a night qualification;

More information on both licences can be found in ANO, Schedule 8.

JD

[EGBKFLYER]

Hmm. Schedule 8 says:

Airline Transport Pilot Licence (Aeroplane)
Privileges and conditions:
1 (1) Subject to any conditions specified in respect of the licence, the privileges of the holder of an Airline Transport Pilot Licence (Aeroplane) are to:
(a) exercise all the privileges of the holder of a JAR–FCL Private Pilot Licence
(Aeroplane), a JAR–FCL Commercial Pilot Licence (Aeroplane) and an instrument rating (aeroplane); and

I read that as having an IR(A) - which therefore supercedes the IMC rating.

[Jumbo Driver]

Aah ... the plot thickens ...


JD

[EGBKFLYER]

I would have thought you would have to take the relevant test to exercise the provileges, but Schedule 8 doesn't appear to mention that. Now I'm confused.

[Jumbo Driver]

As I understand it, the Instrument Rating in the JAR-FCL ATPL will itself need to be kept current, quite separately from the Licence validity, whereas the UK CPL/ATPL does not require separate revalidation of the IMC or Night Rating, both of which remain valid within the currency of the licence.


JD

[Daysleeper]

OK

Having just swopped my UK CAA ATPLA for a new JAR-ATPLA one of my concerns was what about my IMC privileges...well on my new "ratings" page there has appeared a new 'national rating" IMC to go along with my full instrument rating. As a national rating it is of course only valid in the UK.

My IR for single pilot operations hasn't been used for about 9 years , but if I wanted to renew it the requirements would be based on the last expiry of my Multi pilot IR (which is current). So a fairly straight forward test as opposed to the nightmare of letting the whole thing lapse for that long.

[BEagle]

A JAR-FCL multi-pilot IR is no longer sufficient to maintain a UK IMC Rating.

You need to do whatever refresher flying you feel necessary, then fly the IMC flight test with an Examiner.

Seeemples!!

[mad_jock]

I haven't gone down this route yet but an FO I used to fly with had.

If you have a current SPA SEP IR and you do something like 5 IFR approaches a year in a SEP and documented them in the remarks column you can renew your SPA SEP IR by experience as long as you have a valid MPA IR.

He had few issues persuading an examiner that it was legal but in the end he beat them into submission with emails from the caa and legislation. I don't know where he got it from but he was pretty chuffed he didn't have to pay for an IR check flight.

If you let the SPA SEP IR lapse for any reason you have to do a flight test.

[Daysleeper]

A JAR-FCL multi-pilot IR is no longer sufficient to maintain a UK IMC Rating.

Are you sure, the discussion I had at Gatwick went along the lines of .... there are NO changes to your licence privileges when converting from UK to JAR atpl.... though the IMC has to appear separately on the ratings page.

[mad_jock]

Yep thats right.

They used to issue you with a IMC when you got your IR on your CPL if you asked for it. If you didn't ask for it they forgot about it.

They also said that it was valid as long as your MPA IR was valid and it never needed to be signed.

Then someone had an accident and they decided that the reduced panel work wasn't there in the MPA IR test so it wasn't valid any more.

And now they seem to have gone back a step with the SPA IR.

Its a big con so that people convert to JAR licenses which are only valid for 5 years. There are a heap of subtle differences which will hit you in the pocket for ever more.

[Daysleeper]

Buer

Oh well, lucky I only go out on CAVOK these days.