Question about Callsigns
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2007
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From: Bournemouth
Question about Callsigns
This may be a fairly obvious question to some of you. But I was wondering, who or what assigns out callsigns?
For instance, what is stopping me using a made up callsign on the radio, such as "Rich 1, ready for departure"?!
Or is there some system in place controlling it, similar to personalised registrations?
For instance, what is stopping me using a made up callsign on the radio, such as "Rich 1, ready for departure"?!
Or is there some system in place controlling it, similar to personalised registrations?
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From: SoCal
such as "Rich 1, ready for departure"?!
Other than the universally used a/c callsign (omitting the country prefix in places like the US and Australia, where the chance of a foreign reg'd a/c in GA is remote), there are company callsigns. Every country has its procedure regarding the allocation thereof. So, if you wannabe Rich One (at least at startup), contact the CAA, they'll point you in the right direction
PS: AFAIK, in most places, company callsigns are reserved for AOC holders (or equivalent) with significant traffic - one of the places I fly with uses them, and they are a busy FTO.
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2007
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From: Bournemouth
Haha, I suggested 'Rich One' as I am only Rich by name, sadly not by nature!!
I'm learning at a small flying school where we use the aircraft callsign. I just wondered who controlled their use.
Thanks for your reply.
I'm learning at a small flying school where we use the aircraft callsign. I just wondered who controlled their use.
Thanks for your reply.
Joined: Oct 2004
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From: UK
1.1 UK policy for the assignment of ICAO Location Indicators, ICAO 3-letter Designators and ICAO Telephony Designators is based upon ICAO Docs 7910 and 8585. The CAA Directorate of Airspace Policy (DAP) has responsibility for the formulation of UK policy concerning requests for, or changes to, ICAO Location Indicators, ICAO 3-letter designators and ICAO Telephony Designators.
1.2 Responsibility for the day-to-day application of this policy rests with NATS Ltd, Civil Aviation Communications Centre (CACC).
5.1 All UK applications for the assignment of new ICAO Location Indicators, 3-Letter Designators and Telephony Designators are to be made to:
Operations Support
NATS Ltd
Civil Aviation Communications Centre
Room 3524, Swanwick ACC
Sopwith Way
Swanwick
Southampton
Hampshire
SO31 7AY
e-mail: [email protected]
1.2 Responsibility for the day-to-day application of this policy rests with NATS Ltd, Civil Aviation Communications Centre (CACC).
5.1 All UK applications for the assignment of new ICAO Location Indicators, 3-Letter Designators and Telephony Designators are to be made to:
Operations Support
NATS Ltd
Civil Aviation Communications Centre
Room 3524, Swanwick ACC
Sopwith Way
Swanwick
Southampton
Hampshire
SO31 7AY
e-mail: [email protected]
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From: Back in the real world
An ATS unit can issue an aircraft with a temp callsign, whilst the aircraft is on the ATS frequency, whenever the ATS unit feels it would aid clarity or promote flight safety.
If you have a good relationship with your A/G or AFIS (sleeping with one or all at an ATC field), a list of good reasons, are expert with your tounge and can stand the urine extraction that will follow....
If you have a good relationship with your A/G or AFIS (sleeping with one or all at an ATC field), a list of good reasons, are expert with your tounge and can stand the urine extraction that will follow....
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From: Blighty
And these callsigns have to be de-conflicted with every other operator in the world, both military and civil. So the application process is lengthy and also your callsign is liable for rejection.
My company's callsign was changed about 6 years ago to avoid confusion to similar sounding ones. The new callsign was changed to one with only one confliction - a US recconaissance unit. I wasn't too happy about sharing the same airspace as them during a war!
My company's callsign was changed about 6 years ago to avoid confusion to similar sounding ones. The new callsign was changed to one with only one confliction - a US recconaissance unit. I wasn't too happy about sharing the same airspace as them during a war!
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From: EuroGA.org
I bet quite a few training organisations who do not have an AOC are using callsigns.
Most likely they make them up. Some of those I hear are quite hilarious, and pretty obviously not deconflicted with the rest of the world
It is an ego exercise - makes the school sound like an airline.
Most likely they make them up. Some of those I hear are quite hilarious, and pretty obviously not deconflicted with the rest of the world
It is an ego exercise - makes the school sound like an airline.
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From: Livin de island life
There's no requirement to have an AOC in order to be allocated a callsign - you just need a good reason.
As for light relief :
Pilot, "XXXX Tower, Blackadder One"
Witty ATCer, "XXXX Tower, I have a cunning plan"
As for light relief :
Pilot, "XXXX Tower, Blackadder One"
Witty ATCer, "XXXX Tower, I have a cunning plan"
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From: Do I come here often?
You normally hear the Blackadder callsigns around EGHH. Mustang operates out of Redhill along with Rocket.
We went through a company name change recently but wanted to keep our old C/S. It took ICAO nearly three months to sort that one out.
One advantage of a company C/S is that ATC tend to realise that you are a pro doing your job and that time is money. They expect you to be able to comply with any clearance they give to help you out, and for you to fly with a high level of competence and ability. I have heard students using flying school C/S on cross country exercises calling major ATC units when I believed that the C/S was allocated to the organisation and that the student as a hirer was not supposed to use the C/S, and in fact would be better using the aircraft reg with the suffix student, giving ATC fair warning that the pilot is inexperienced and may need a fair degree of help and guidance.
One major disadvantage of personalised callsigns, if you F***up everyone remembers and knows it was you!
We went through a company name change recently but wanted to keep our old C/S. It took ICAO nearly three months to sort that one out.
One advantage of a company C/S is that ATC tend to realise that you are a pro doing your job and that time is money. They expect you to be able to comply with any clearance they give to help you out, and for you to fly with a high level of competence and ability. I have heard students using flying school C/S on cross country exercises calling major ATC units when I believed that the C/S was allocated to the organisation and that the student as a hirer was not supposed to use the C/S, and in fact would be better using the aircraft reg with the suffix student, giving ATC fair warning that the pilot is inexperienced and may need a fair degree of help and guidance.
One major disadvantage of personalised callsigns, if you F***up everyone remembers and knows it was you!
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From: Who can say?
Two of my favourite "Overheard on the R/T" conversations:-
A/c: "We're a flight of 2 A10s at low level routing past XYZ request Radar Information, and we're sorry but we've forgotten our formation callsign."
ATC (with relish): "No problem. Adopt callsigns Stupid One and Stupid Two"
In the 1980s, when East Anglia was base to numerous A10s, a USAF tanker would regular fly on Towline 6. There it would service a seemingly endless stream of A10 pairs and 4-ships using callsigns such as 'Reno', 'Thunder', 'Rocky', 'Warthog' et al. One day a more unusual callsign checked in for AAR:
A10 Lead:- "Asshole check."
A10 Wingman:- "Two."
A10 Lead:- "Neatishead, this is Asshole section, two A10s for Towline 6."
GCI:- "Station calling Neatishead, confirm callsign?"
A10 Lead:- "Asshole section, Sir."
GCI:- "Say reason for callsign?"
A10 Lead:- "We were late for the brief, Sir."
A/c: "We're a flight of 2 A10s at low level routing past XYZ request Radar Information, and we're sorry but we've forgotten our formation callsign."
ATC (with relish): "No problem. Adopt callsigns Stupid One and Stupid Two"
In the 1980s, when East Anglia was base to numerous A10s, a USAF tanker would regular fly on Towline 6. There it would service a seemingly endless stream of A10 pairs and 4-ships using callsigns such as 'Reno', 'Thunder', 'Rocky', 'Warthog' et al. One day a more unusual callsign checked in for AAR:
A10 Lead:- "Asshole check."
A10 Wingman:- "Two."
A10 Lead:- "Neatishead, this is Asshole section, two A10s for Towline 6."
GCI:- "Station calling Neatishead, confirm callsign?"
A10 Lead:- "Asshole section, Sir."
GCI:- "Say reason for callsign?"
A10 Lead:- "We were late for the brief, Sir."
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From: The Smaller Antipode
I thought the aircraft callsign was originally the radio station designator ? i.e. the radio callsign assigned to the radio equipment mounted in the aircraft ?
What callsign did Orville Wright use ?
All Radio Hams used to have a callsign that started with G in the UK, and 9V in Singapore, VH in Australia, ZK in New Zealand, etc. and the aircraft now follow suit, but I don't doubt some other bureacracy has taken over, and the CAA will assign 'private' call-signs according to the protocols already mentioned, in the manner of personalised number plates on cars, I guess.
There is also a sort of system for ICAO airfield designators. When Pontius was a pilot someone drew a grid over the world and lettered the squares A B C D E F G etc. most of Northern Europe, including the UK, fall in the E square, the second letter designates the Country, and the last two letters have some sort of affinity with the airfield name - sometimes.
So ... EGLL is the haphazard E, then G for Great Britain and LL for London Heathrow ( why not LH ? dunno ) or EGKK for Gatwick. EHAM isn't Hamburg, but haphazard E, then H for Holland and AM for Amsterdam.EDDF E plus D for Deutschland, and DF for Frankfurt. EGPK = Prestwick.
France and Italy fell into the L square, so LFPO = haphazard L then F for France and PO for Paris Orly, LIRF L + I for Italy, RF for Rome Fumicino.
It's not definitive World wide now, for instance Australia has changed to starting with A, and New Zealand with NZ, which makes sense, but the USA has stuck with the initial letter, most starting with K KJFK for Kennedy, ( used to be KIDL ewild ) but P for the Pacific places, like PANC for Anchorage and PHNL for Honolulu.
Some sort of logic to the system I gues,tho' one does sometimes wonder !
What callsign did Orville Wright use ?
All Radio Hams used to have a callsign that started with G in the UK, and 9V in Singapore, VH in Australia, ZK in New Zealand, etc. and the aircraft now follow suit, but I don't doubt some other bureacracy has taken over, and the CAA will assign 'private' call-signs according to the protocols already mentioned, in the manner of personalised number plates on cars, I guess.
There is also a sort of system for ICAO airfield designators. When Pontius was a pilot someone drew a grid over the world and lettered the squares A B C D E F G etc. most of Northern Europe, including the UK, fall in the E square, the second letter designates the Country, and the last two letters have some sort of affinity with the airfield name - sometimes.
So ... EGLL is the haphazard E, then G for Great Britain and LL for London Heathrow ( why not LH ? dunno ) or EGKK for Gatwick. EHAM isn't Hamburg, but haphazard E, then H for Holland and AM for Amsterdam.EDDF E plus D for Deutschland, and DF for Frankfurt. EGPK = Prestwick.
France and Italy fell into the L square, so LFPO = haphazard L then F for France and PO for Paris Orly, LIRF L + I for Italy, RF for Rome Fumicino.
It's not definitive World wide now, for instance Australia has changed to starting with A, and New Zealand with NZ, which makes sense, but the USA has stuck with the initial letter, most starting with K KJFK for Kennedy, ( used to be KIDL ewild ) but P for the Pacific places, like PANC for Anchorage and PHNL for Honolulu.
Some sort of logic to the system I gues,tho' one does sometimes wonder !
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From: Surrey, UK ;
I don't know what haphazard reference gave my present haunt OTBD for Doha.
At least the USA has a semblance of sense and I can usually type the ICAO ref from memory.
The haphazard K followed by the airfield name. KDEN = Denver, KJFK = JFK, KCOS = Colorado Springs.
I have no idea where the others for the smaller US fields came from though (any help out there ?) why Meadowlake is 00V I do not know.
DGG
At least the USA has a semblance of sense and I can usually type the ICAO ref from memory.
The haphazard K followed by the airfield name. KDEN = Denver, KJFK = JFK, KCOS = Colorado Springs.
I have no idea where the others for the smaller US fields came from though (any help out there ?) why Meadowlake is 00V I do not know.
DGG
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From: Here and there. Here at the moment but soon I'll be there.
I have no idea where the others for the smaller US fields came from though (any help out there ?) why Meadowlake is 00V I do not know.
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From: The Smaller Antipode
but I'm no nearer to why Meadowlake is ØØV
Don't get confused between IATA - the letters on your baggage tag - and ICAO either, often totally different, London Heathrow is EGLL in ICAO-speak and LHR in IATA-speak.
The World has a long way to go to achieve standardisation, I mean, when is the USA going to start driving on the left hand side of the road !!
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From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
The World has a long way to go to achieve standardisation, I mean, when is the USA going to start driving on the left hand side of the road !!
On a multi-national exercise in Germany once, when we practised escorting a transport aeroplane along the 'Passageway' (the word 'Corridor' being banned...
) the 'tactical word' to call the head/beam/stern sector approach of the intruding fighter was decided by the leader. Of course, when Uncle Spam's F-15s had the lead, they came up with punchy words such as 'cougar', 'bear' and 'snake'. After a few days of this, it was the Brit F-4s' turn to lead - so our leader chose 'Nobber' and 'Pillock' (can't remember the third). Off we went - and to hear the French Mirages calling "Nobbeurre" or "Peeelock" had us in stitches......Working with the French in Incirlik, the RAF-suggested formation callsigns of 'Agincourt' and 'Waterloo' were, for some reason, declined by the French......
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From: Hotel this week, hotel next week, home whenever...
IIRC Orlando = MCO because it used to be McCoy Air Force station - that's what I read on the B52 in the memorial garden at the end of the runway.
Sad, I know!
Sad, I know!
