C172 crash at Humberside yesterday afternoon
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When I worked at Bumbleside you certainly could see the threshold of 26 (or 27 as it was) ...
It could well be that the Fire Training ground equipment now partially precludes a direct view of the threshold, but I do find it rather odd that ATC didn't see the accident occur or at least the aircraft after it had come to grief.
It could well be that the Fire Training ground equipment now partially precludes a direct view of the threshold, but I do find it rather odd that ATC didn't see the accident occur or at least the aircraft after it had come to grief.
And just to clarify, there are CCTV cameras for the 02 and also 08 thresholds which are also difficult/impossible to see from the tower.
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Firstly i am really pleased the pilot was not badly hurt in this accident but then I also ask why?? should such an accident happen? What a shame to see an aircraft wrecked like that! Is something lacking in the training?
Pace
Pace
Intelligent Idiot
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Is something lacking in the training?
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Is something lacking in the training
I was vectored in behind an airbus on a nice still day, and was warned "caution wake turbulence". Yea yea I thought, then all of a sudden the aircraft started rolling right....I had full left aileron on and was still rolling right.....so I started putting in left boot on the rudder...and was still rolling right. Suddenly my mate in the RHS who was a 000'hr pilot clicked, grabbed control, wacked on full power and pulled up. As soon as we were out of the vortex, no problem.
It was wierd because it caught me totally by surprise. The airframe started shuddering and rolling very fast and I'm thinking to myself "what the heck is going on, has something broken...**** we're at 1500'....
"....This all happened very quickly, and I certainly learned about flying from that and now have a very great respect for wake turbulence since. I was lucky, I was flying an ILS at 100ks. I hate to think what would have happened has I been at a final approach speed.
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The Pilot concerned is very experienced pace and flies regularly all over the country. Not a newly minted PPL nor a minimum hours flyer.
If the pilot is experienced then that puts a bigger ? mark as on the face of things it appears to be a lack of speed control with a subsequent stall/wing drop any other possibilities which are excusable? Dont think ATC would allow him to land too soon behind a heavy or helo.
In that situation carrying extra speed would be the order of the day. Maybe catching up caused him to bring the speed right back and hey bingo.
Anyway a lesson? and glad he was OK.
Pace
Last edited by Pace; 30th Sep 2009 at 20:37.
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The chopper had landed on 08 a few minutes earlier and had been cleared to direct taxi from the 08 threshold to the southern apron, ie: fly across the grass instead of down 02 and backtrack 20. It is thought that due to the light winds on the day, the choppers air doughnut was still present at the threshold when G-BRWO landed. The poor guy didn’t stand a chance. The pilot is not a newbie to flying at all so any suggestions that his inexperience or negligence is out of the question. He is a bit sore & tender in places but I’m sure you will join me in wishing him a speedy recovery.
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Pace, I have used that runway myself a few times and it is well known for unexpected wind shear and turbulence over the threshold.
Following a heavy in on that runway won't be in the equation as it is limited to light aircraft only, all the commercial boys using 20/02.
I saw mention of one of the Rig Choppers preceding his arrival but the only heli I am aware of that uses this smaller runway is the Robinson R22, I may be wrong on that score but when I have been given 26 for departure, I have often had to wait for the larger helis to vacate 20 before entering.
I know the pilot concerned and have flown as a passenger with him in his own aircraft, also a PA28 and not the one pictured. I dare say he might enlighten us in the near future but otherwise its wait and see what the AAIB come up with.
Following a heavy in on that runway won't be in the equation as it is limited to light aircraft only, all the commercial boys using 20/02.
I saw mention of one of the Rig Choppers preceding his arrival but the only heli I am aware of that uses this smaller runway is the Robinson R22, I may be wrong on that score but when I have been given 26 for departure, I have often had to wait for the larger helis to vacate 20 before entering.
I know the pilot concerned and have flown as a passenger with him in his own aircraft, also a PA28 and not the one pictured. I dare say he might enlighten us in the near future but otherwise its wait and see what the AAIB come up with.
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I've landed behind 'heavy' jet transports many times and it's no big deal, as long as you stay above its path and land beyond its touchdown point (i.e. stay above the wake).
However, have to admit that I wasn't aware of the damage a helo can do - learned something here
PS: best wishes to the pilot, looking fwd to reading his account
However, have to admit that I wasn't aware of the damage a helo can do - learned something here
PS: best wishes to the pilot, looking fwd to reading his account
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I'm not familiar with helicopter ops - why do they use a runway at all and not have a helipad area away from the fixed wing approaches? Wouldn't that be safer for all concerned?
Or is it to do with instrument approaches using radio nav aids?
Or is it to do with instrument approaches using radio nav aids?
If the Wx requires instrument approaches then we use the ILS on rwy 20, or non precision on either 02 or 20. There are no instrument appproaches to 26. Can't be used at night either.
We use runways because of the class of approach we do and for safety reasons. better to land on a runway than a field when you have wheels! If we had great performance and unlimited power margins, then yes, helipads would be great. We do have one published approach/departure which takes us direct from Charlie taxiway to the east, or vice-versa. A lot of the guys don't like using it though and we can only do it with the wind in the right direction and no passengers.
It's all to do with public transport ops.
We use runways because of the class of approach we do and for safety reasons. better to land on a runway than a field when you have wheels! If we had great performance and unlimited power margins, then yes, helipads would be great. We do have one published approach/departure which takes us direct from Charlie taxiway to the east, or vice-versa. A lot of the guys don't like using it though and we can only do it with the wind in the right direction and no passengers.
It's all to do with public transport ops.