Biggin Emergency Landing or was it?
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Ammeter wasn't working in another aircraft and there was nothing on the gauge to indicate it wasn't working.
Fuel gauge, left one was showing full while the right was showing between half to 3/4 full and moving between.
Fuel gauge, left one was showing full while the right was showing between half to 3/4 full and moving between.
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The crest was just ahead of us, I think he waited untill speed dropped and then thought best bring it down here rather than hitting the crest at some speed.
I don't want to mention the company incase I cause some hassle just yet though anyone with a knowledge of biggin hill and the gps position in the my first post will have a good idea who it is.
Donalk- Your post is well written and makes good points. Thanks
I don't want to mention the company incase I cause some hassle just yet though anyone with a knowledge of biggin hill and the gps position in the my first post will have a good idea who it is.
Donalk- Your post is well written and makes good points. Thanks
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But if one only believes them when they agree with other sources one is not using them at all. They are there for a purpose
Once you are in the air the only means you have to monitor your fuel is the gauge.
After all of which ... one of the aircraft I fly has one gauge which occasionally flicks down to zero for a while, giving rise to a spurious low fuel light, then after a while it flicks back up to where it should be. I'm confortable flying this aircraft in this condition.
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I can imagine it's probably offputting to have a quick return on your second flight, but I wouldn't let it put you off if you can help it as it's a fantastic hobby (or way of life!)
My question is I guess that you've been over it with the instructor concerned and maybe his CFI? My reason being that you're asking people on here (when you really don't know what their own background is) for opinions on what happened when a) none of us bar you were there and b) you don't really seem to know many of the facts that you would do if you'd discussed it with the instructor. Lots of your comments are about you seeing things (85 knots) or you knowing where he put it down ("before the crest") etc - I'm sure he'd happily discuss what and how he did what he did with you.
If he doesn't then you need to find yourself a new instructor anyway!
But don't give up, a good landing is after all one that you walk away from!
My question is I guess that you've been over it with the instructor concerned and maybe his CFI? My reason being that you're asking people on here (when you really don't know what their own background is) for opinions on what happened when a) none of us bar you were there and b) you don't really seem to know many of the facts that you would do if you'd discussed it with the instructor. Lots of your comments are about you seeing things (85 knots) or you knowing where he put it down ("before the crest") etc - I'm sure he'd happily discuss what and how he did what he did with you.
If he doesn't then you need to find yourself a new instructor anyway!
But don't give up, a good landing is after all one that you walk away from!
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No, because a fuel gauge is a required instrument for VFR flight. It therefore cannot be placarded as inop and the aircraft legally flown.
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My question is I guess that you've been over it with the instructor concerned and maybe his CFI? My reason being that you're asking people on here (when you really don't know what their own background is) for opinions on what happened when a) none of us bar you were there and b) you don't really seem to know many of the facts that you would do if you'd discussed it with the instructor. Lots of your comments are about you seeing things (85 knots) or you knowing where he put it down ("before the crest") etc - I'm sure he'd happily discuss what and how he did what he did with you.
While we didn't have a full debrief, he did say this was the first time in 1500 hours as a CFI that there was anything like this and that this was rare and not to put me off flying etc.. and also that it was probally rough running.
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Runway 29 not only has the dip in the middle, but also lots of trees, 'ploughed' earth, a road, and fence just before the threshold. I'd certainly come in high under the circumstances to make sure I had height enough to avoid all the obsticals should the engine cut on the approach, if too high on 29 i'd turn right and land on a taxiway or on the grass.
Re emergency services, as said by someone here already. They don't have much to do, and hell yeah I'd be out there straight away to see what's up.
As this is your second hour, I'd doubt you were actually in the know with regard to ammeter, and fuel gauges. I fly a tomahawk who's fuel gauges aren't great in the climb-out but are fine in level flight. Certainly a visual check or dip check on the tanks before flight MUST be performed and checked with the gauges so you have an idea of the fuel onboard.
Don't get disheartened, your instructor sounds like he did a bloody good job. And you got a lesson on EFATO very early on
Re emergency services, as said by someone here already. They don't have much to do, and hell yeah I'd be out there straight away to see what's up.
As this is your second hour, I'd doubt you were actually in the know with regard to ammeter, and fuel gauges. I fly a tomahawk who's fuel gauges aren't great in the climb-out but are fine in level flight. Certainly a visual check or dip check on the tanks before flight MUST be performed and checked with the gauges so you have an idea of the fuel onboard.
Don't get disheartened, your instructor sounds like he did a bloody good job. And you got a lesson on EFATO very early on
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If you were really high, the instructor might have use a maneuver called a "sideslip" to increase the drag of the aircraft, thus losing altitude without gaining speed. With a sideslip you're flying more or less sideways through the air so the air doesn't flow along the fuselage, but against it.
But a serious sideslip screws up a lot of cockpit indications temporarily. Fuel gauges, airspeed, altitude and maybe a few others. All depending on the exact configuration of the fuel gauge sender, location of pitot tube, static ports and so forth. We normally don't notice this because in a sideslip you should be looking outside.
Best to ask the instructor what he did exactly, and raise your concerns with him. In fact, if this is a half-decent flight school I think you should be able to phone them up, confess that the whole situation frightened you a bit and ask if you can have a further chat with the instructor about it, on the ground, for free. He is in the best position to answer all your questions and give you the confidence to continue your training.
But a serious sideslip screws up a lot of cockpit indications temporarily. Fuel gauges, airspeed, altitude and maybe a few others. All depending on the exact configuration of the fuel gauge sender, location of pitot tube, static ports and so forth. We normally don't notice this because in a sideslip you should be looking outside.
Best to ask the instructor what he did exactly, and raise your concerns with him. In fact, if this is a half-decent flight school I think you should be able to phone them up, confess that the whole situation frightened you a bit and ask if you can have a further chat with the instructor about it, on the ground, for free. He is in the best position to answer all your questions and give you the confidence to continue your training.
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A phrase I learned a while ago is Fuel gauges are there to show you have gauges, not how much fuel you might have. Better off relying on calculations, so long as your arithmetic is any good.
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Fear Factor ?
Akzah,
I have to agree with Gertrude . . don't trust the guages . . dip the tanks. You can get some lovely dippy tube things from most suppliers of pilots' bag ballast e.g. Transair.
The other thing you might consider is do a bit of gliding as well. Although the characteristics are very different to something like a Cessna, having to get the landing right without an engine doesn't half reduce the pucker factor !
All the best with your training.
Nickh
I have to agree with Gertrude . . don't trust the guages . . dip the tanks. You can get some lovely dippy tube things from most suppliers of pilots' bag ballast e.g. Transair.
The other thing you might consider is do a bit of gliding as well. Although the characteristics are very different to something like a Cessna, having to get the landing right without an engine doesn't half reduce the pucker factor !
All the best with your training.
Nickh
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As we left the runway I could see the fire brigade and other airport vehicles coming across to us. Instructor told them it wasn't an emergency and that during his first call he said it wasn't an emergency, I had heard this but people on the ground said there was some crackling.
Your flight was awarded category A priority (as defined by the CAA) which is given to all aircraft in an emergency (engine fault) and other aircraft were moved out of the way accordingly.
