Any tips on Flying EGSF to EDHS
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Cambridgeshire
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Back P,
Fantastic info and thanks very much again for all your kind assistance - much appreciated. Your points about EHRD are much as I suspected but had hoped that there may have been a lesser known backdoor as there are with many larger airfields but alas becoming fewer.
As I may have mentioned my other half is Dutch so I think I can figure my way around most Dutch websites.
VBR
Big Sand
Fantastic info and thanks very much again for all your kind assistance - much appreciated. Your points about EHRD are much as I suspected but had hoped that there may have been a lesser known backdoor as there are with many larger airfields but alas becoming fewer.
As I may have mentioned my other half is Dutch so I think I can figure my way around most Dutch websites.
VBR
Big Sand
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: EHBK
Age: 58
Posts: 315
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Big Sand,
EHTX is a fabulous little spot. I've always enjoyed the warmest of welcomes there, even with a less than standard arrival
I've never refuelled there but I would imagine it's not very different from most dutch fields and, consequently, could make your eyes water a bit !!
As far as taking the loptop along, it might come in handy, possibly, but I doubt it'll be worth it. As stated earlier by Fuji, it's a relatively short trip. You'll have access to wx briefing before departure. I'm assuming you probably won't take on the trip in the Bulldog with highly volatile wx so there should be few significant changes from forecast in the timespan of the trip. Once you hit the continent, there are a plethora of fields with ATIS with which you can track developements. Even more should you need somewhere to put down in a hurry. Add to that the service provided by the various ATS units (an RIS or better in old money) and you should be well covered.
For the return trip wherever you stay; family, friends or hotel will no doubt have internet acces. Backpacker's suggestions will tick all the boxes for you. Add to that Aviation Weather >> Europe > metar taf sigmet notam winds aloft significant weather information which has served me well for the past number of years. A sort of one stop shop if you like.
EHTX is a fabulous little spot. I've always enjoyed the warmest of welcomes there, even with a less than standard arrival
I've never refuelled there but I would imagine it's not very different from most dutch fields and, consequently, could make your eyes water a bit !!As far as taking the loptop along, it might come in handy, possibly, but I doubt it'll be worth it. As stated earlier by Fuji, it's a relatively short trip. You'll have access to wx briefing before departure. I'm assuming you probably won't take on the trip in the Bulldog with highly volatile wx so there should be few significant changes from forecast in the timespan of the trip. Once you hit the continent, there are a plethora of fields with ATIS with which you can track developements. Even more should you need somewhere to put down in a hurry. Add to that the service provided by the various ATS units (an RIS or better in old money) and you should be well covered.
For the return trip wherever you stay; family, friends or hotel will no doubt have internet acces. Backpacker's suggestions will tick all the boxes for you. Add to that Aviation Weather >> Europe > metar taf sigmet notam winds aloft significant weather information which has served me well for the past number of years. A sort of one stop shop if you like.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 4,598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Forgot this one:
MET'MAP - ORBIFLY FLIGHT SCHOOL - IFR ET CPL AMERICAIN EN EUROPE - FAA IFR AND CPL IN EUROPE
They interpret the METARs and give them a color code. This allows you to identify the trouble spots along your route easily. You can then click and zoom to find out the details.
MET'MAP - ORBIFLY FLIGHT SCHOOL - IFR ET CPL AMERICAIN EN EUROPE - FAA IFR AND CPL IN EUROPE
They interpret the METARs and give them a color code. This allows you to identify the trouble spots along your route easily. You can then click and zoom to find out the details.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 4,631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well the thread wetted my apetite for somewhere different.
Thanks to Backpacker I gave the Vleigclub Rotterdam a call and they were happy to "handle" me. The way it works (or in my case) is a follow me car will meet you and guide you to the club parking which is immediately opposite the easterly approach. The chap in the follow me car takes the fee which in my case was 26E for the landing and parking - not bad at all.
The club is great and really helpful. Having never been to Rotterdam in my case sad to say it is a thumbs down - a very modern City with little apparent character, although some nice places to eat. The City itself would not be high on my priorities.
I went VFR outbound and it suited me to go dct TRACA (just north of Calais) dct. This neatly avoids the Gravelines PA which the French get excited about although with an upper limit of 3,500 chances are you will be over the top. The route along the coast only involves calls to Lille, Ostend (for the transit), Dutch Mil and Rotterdam. Coming back it was MADUX dct Dover for a much longer crossing. For VFR flying make sure you have the VFR arrivals and departures chart of the Belgium AIP for Rotterdam although they seem happy enough to give you vectors as well.
I hope may be of interest to anyone wishing to go there.
It was unbelievably quite flying with the odd Brit around although anyone below FL60 was in the soup.
Thanks Backpacker.
Big Sand - so Rotterdam have definitely not clamped down on GA at the moment and indeed it is very good value indeed, so no excuse I am afraid for visiting the outlaws. They say there are 6 flights a day to Blighty but the place seemed pretty quite with most of the noise be made by a twin flying calibration runs on the ILS!!
Thanks to Backpacker I gave the Vleigclub Rotterdam a call and they were happy to "handle" me. The way it works (or in my case) is a follow me car will meet you and guide you to the club parking which is immediately opposite the easterly approach. The chap in the follow me car takes the fee which in my case was 26E for the landing and parking - not bad at all.
The club is great and really helpful. Having never been to Rotterdam in my case sad to say it is a thumbs down - a very modern City with little apparent character, although some nice places to eat. The City itself would not be high on my priorities.
I went VFR outbound and it suited me to go dct TRACA (just north of Calais) dct. This neatly avoids the Gravelines PA which the French get excited about although with an upper limit of 3,500 chances are you will be over the top. The route along the coast only involves calls to Lille, Ostend (for the transit), Dutch Mil and Rotterdam. Coming back it was MADUX dct Dover for a much longer crossing. For VFR flying make sure you have the VFR arrivals and departures chart of the Belgium AIP for Rotterdam although they seem happy enough to give you vectors as well.
I hope may be of interest to anyone wishing to go there.
It was unbelievably quite flying with the odd Brit around although anyone below FL60 was in the soup.
Thanks Backpacker.
Big Sand - so Rotterdam have definitely not clamped down on GA at the moment and indeed it is very good value indeed, so no excuse I am afraid for visiting the outlaws. They say there are 6 flights a day to Blighty but the place seemed pretty quite with most of the noise be made by a twin flying calibration runs on the ILS!!
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 4,598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fuji, glad you enjoyed the trip. And yes, Rotterdam is quite a modern city: The Germans bombed the heck out of it at the start of WWII so nothing of the "old" city remains.
I can imagine that the place would be rather quiet yesterday, with the weather we had. The Vliegclub Rotterdam is responsible for about half the movements on the field on an average day, but of course the far majority of those are VFR.
I looked at the webcam of the club around noon and saw a follow me car on our little apron and two people in orange hi-viz going into the clubhouse. Was that you, by any chance? Didn't see the Cirrus though - it was probably parked just outside the frame opposite the PH-SVN.
I can imagine that the place would be rather quiet yesterday, with the weather we had. The Vliegclub Rotterdam is responsible for about half the movements on the field on an average day, but of course the far majority of those are VFR.
I looked at the webcam of the club around noon and saw a follow me car on our little apron and two people in orange hi-viz going into the clubhouse. Was that you, by any chance? Didn't see the Cirrus though - it was probably parked just outside the frame opposite the PH-SVN.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 4,631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No, it wasnt me only because I try and avoid the high viz vests! I left that to my friend.
We were in the bay directly behind the little apron square in front of the club. It was a left turn as if you were parking directly in front of the club and a few very helpful club members gave us a push back into the bay straight behind.
The lady I spoke to on the 'phone and met behind the desk was brilliant - very helpful, as was the gentlemen who disappeared off with the FP and sorted it our for me.
It is a shame the City has lost so much of its history. I have to say some of the new buildings are architectually very spectacular but I get the feeling the City has lost its heart. A few hours is not long however so to be fair I expect a local such as yourself could show it off in a better light.
We were in the bay directly behind the little apron square in front of the club. It was a left turn as if you were parking directly in front of the club and a few very helpful club members gave us a push back into the bay straight behind.
The lady I spoke to on the 'phone and met behind the desk was brilliant - very helpful, as was the gentlemen who disappeared off with the FP and sorted it our for me.
It is a shame the City has lost so much of its history. I have to say some of the new buildings are architectually very spectacular but I get the feeling the City has lost its heart. A few hours is not long however so to be fair I expect a local such as yourself could show it off in a better light.
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Cambridge
Age: 78
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mode 'S'
Request to "Backpacker"
What date was Mode 'S' made mandatory in Netherlands for VFR Light Planes?
and also when was ELT made mandatory? Does this apply to all non PH registered aircraft or was there a period of grace?
would appreciate the information. As I have booked the fitting of ELT with my annual in Germany.
What date was Mode 'S' made mandatory in Netherlands for VFR Light Planes?
and also when was ELT made mandatory? Does this apply to all non PH registered aircraft or was there a period of grace?
would appreciate the information. As I have booked the fitting of ELT with my annual in Germany.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: EHBK
Age: 58
Posts: 315
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Big Sand,
Sorry to say I can't furnish the promised info. I got as far as the holding point for 21 here at Maastricht before taying back in with an eletrical anomaly. If I manage the trip in the meantime, I'll keep you posted.
Sorry to say I can't furnish the promised info. I got as far as the holding point for 21 here at Maastricht before taying back in with an eletrical anomaly. If I manage the trip in the meantime, I'll keep you posted.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 4,598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bottlehead, there was no specific date for mode-S. Instead, it became mandatory for IFR flight, then VFR flights above FL65, then FL45 and then 1200'. This happened over a period of years.
The same is true for ELT. It's been mandatory for airliners for god knows how long, and this eventually filtered down to all powered aircraft making international flights.
Wrt. mode-S, there is still an AIC on the Dutch AIS website (AIS Netherlands) with the timeline on implementation for both powered and non-powered aircraft. I would not know if the same kind of document exists for ELTs.
The same is true for ELT. It's been mandatory for airliners for god knows how long, and this eventually filtered down to all powered aircraft making international flights.
Wrt. mode-S, there is still an AIC on the Dutch AIS website (AIS Netherlands) with the timeline on implementation for both powered and non-powered aircraft. I would not know if the same kind of document exists for ELTs.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 4,631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Aeronautical Information Circular Series NETHERLANDS A 07/08
The AIP also covers ELTS.
However, you may also be interested in the overloading of the system also addressed in the AIP.
On a recent trip to Rotterdam I had one aircraft which appeared to be only mode A on TCAS and also according to AT.
The AIP also covers ELTS.
However, you may also be interested in the overloading of the system also addressed in the AIP.
On a recent trip to Rotterdam I had one aircraft which appeared to be only mode A on TCAS and also according to AT.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Cambridgeshire
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Radar,
Good call mate: " Take off's are optional - landings are mandatory". Thanks for the e-mail. If you do get to Leer please do let me know what it's like. I looked at some feedback on a German GA website and it got very good reviews - if my 'high school German' serves me well?
All the best.
Big Sand
Good call mate: " Take off's are optional - landings are mandatory". Thanks for the e-mail. If you do get to Leer please do let me know what it's like. I looked at some feedback on a German GA website and it got very good reviews - if my 'high school German' serves me well?
All the best.
Big Sand
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Cambridgeshire
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FA,
Thanks for the kind feedback on Rotterdam. Much more cost effective than I had thought. Looking at the Rotterdam Airport website I had been expecting to donate a viable body organ to land there bit 26Euro is very good. Was that the full deal or was there other charges?
If either you or BP are planning to go to Rotterdam again may I suggest a wee drink at the Oude Haven or there is a good street market on Saturday mornings. Delft also has a very nice antiques market on a Saturday morning.
VBR
Big Sand
Thanks for the kind feedback on Rotterdam. Much more cost effective than I had thought. Looking at the Rotterdam Airport website I had been expecting to donate a viable body organ to land there bit 26Euro is very good. Was that the full deal or was there other charges?
If either you or BP are planning to go to Rotterdam again may I suggest a wee drink at the Oude Haven or there is a good street market on Saturday mornings. Delft also has a very nice antiques market on a Saturday morning.
VBR
Big Sand
Join Date: May 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 4,631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Was that the full deal or was there other charges?
Taxi into town about 20E if that is your destination. Best location for the return - taxi rank to the side of the tram station, with the taxi flags flying.
Thank you for the other suggestions.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 4,598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The full deal. There was nothing else at all.
1. The bit that goes to the airport, for maintenance of the runway, taxiways and so forth.
2. The bit that goes to Eurocontrol, who then uses it to pay the guy in the tower.
Fee (1) is a fixed value, based mostly on the weight of the aircraft but may also depend on noise certificate and time of day.
Fee (2) is an incredibly complex value which is actually one fee for landing and another fee for departing. And both fees depend on whether this is a touch-and-go, a local flight, a flight within the Netherlands, or an international flight. There might be a difference VFR/IFR as well.
Within our club people have studied the Eurocontrol regulations long and hard to come up with an accurate and workable solution for billing the hirer straight after the flight. They eventually found out that it was too cumbersome to predict the landing fee for each landing, and charge that to the hirer, unless we started recording a whole lot more information in the logbooks. Instead the club decided to charge a flat fee for every time your wheels hit the runway at Rotterdam. (Cue the usual joke about bouncing...) This is too much for a simple touch-and-go, and too little for an international flight. So sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
This fee is currently a hair under 20 euros, includes items 1 and 2, but you need to remember that we have a discount agreement with Rotterdam for item 1.
Back to the point. Item 2 is not invoiced by Rotterdam airport, but instead Eurocontrol will invoice you direct, based on your registration. And the invoice will be for a landing and a departure, and the amount will depend on your origin and destination, and possibly some other factors. The good news is that this bill will likely not exceed 15 euros.
At least, that's what I understand from the article that the experts wrote in our clubs magazine about this topic a few months ago.
Fee (2) is an incredibly complex value which is actually one fee for landing and another fee for departing.
AIP for NETHERLANDS (section GEN-4.2) valid from 02 JUL 09
€ 163.92 * (MTOW / 50)^0.7 per take-off. For training, 4 T&G = 1 T/O.
That's €11 for a 1 ton aircraft, €17 for a 2 ton aircraft.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 4,631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Shirley all covered in the exemptions:
et al aircraft less than 2mt are excluded as are all VFR flights (assuming applicable).
Bookie
Have I misunderstood as you imply a charge for aircraft less than 2mt?
et al aircraft less than 2mt are excluded as are all VFR flights (assuming applicable).
Bookie
That's €11 for a 1 ton aircraft, €17 for a 2 ton aircraft.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 4,598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Have I misunderstood as you imply a charge for aircraft less than 2mt?
A search for "Eurocontrol Terminal Charges" deep-links into the Eurocontrol website with lots of info about this.
I don't think it's so bad.
In the case of our club, when someone flies to or from a foreign country that applies terminal charges through Eurocontrol (Denmark, say) then the hirer pays the airport landing fee direct, but a month later the club gets the Eurocontrol bill. Of course, the club is not happy having to invoice the hirer a month after the fact, and the club does not want to know the way each and every country calculates the terminal charge so that they can invoice the hirer straight away. In other words, the Eurocontrol bill for a specific flight is totally unpredictable unless you record a lot of information and perform a whole series of calculations. So the club just uses an average which covers everything, and this average is adjusted every now and then as new Eurocontrol bills come in.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: EHBK
Age: 58
Posts: 315
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fuji,
Forgive me, but I think you may be mixing up this "departure" charge with the more familiar, CRCO collected, route charge, which does indeed exclude aircraft less than 2t.
D.
Edited to say ' Beat me to it, Backpacker'
Forgive me, but I think you may be mixing up this "departure" charge with the more familiar, CRCO collected, route charge, which does indeed exclude aircraft less than 2t.
D.
Edited to say ' Beat me to it, Backpacker'