P.P.L. Insurances

[Fingermouse]

I am due to go out to Orlando soon to go get my PPL, the flight school I am training at recommended traffords insurance however their website doesnt give me the right impression I would expect of an aviation insurer..

Have you any experience of traffords insurance? are they a good insurer?

Thanks

[DaveW]

I've used Traffords for a number of years, and have always been very happy with them -though, thankfully, I've had no cause to make a claim!

If you're not convinced by their website, give them a call - they've always come across as thoroughly professional to me, especially regarding their understanding of the realities of GA.

[Cusco]

Another vote for (admittedly untested-like Dave W) Traffords. IIRC they were the cheapest when I first needed insurance 8 years ago so I just kinda stuck with them over the years.

Cusco

[Fingermouse]

What do we think of AOPA aircraft rental insurance? Apparently AOPA have a big footprint out in the states according to my atpl holding buddy..

What type of insurances do you think I should ideally have, and what types should I hold realistically (if there is any difference)?

Thanks all

[PompeyPaul]

unfortunately......

You only find out the difference between good insurance and bad insurance when you REALLY need the cover.

Most of the insurance industry is run by crooks, as far as I can gather.

If nobody has made a claim then all you have ascertained is that they hand out bits of paper cheapest. This is generally achieved by refusing to pay out until the day before the inevitable court case.

[Croqueteer]

I was paid out a total loss by Traffords, no fuss, a lot of help and always a real voice to answer the phone.

[sevenstar]

Ok Traffords (another ) offer holiday insurance that covers you while flying. Most 'holiday' insurances will not cover your medical bill etc if you were piloting an aircraft at the time the injury happened 'cos they deem flying to be a hazourdous pursuit. But Traffords will provide holiday cover to include flying.

The Aopa insurance or renters insurance as its known covers you while renting. Renting is when you fly a plane solo as a student or when just renting psot licence issue. If you own an aircraft you must insure it and have liablity insurance of a certain amount under law. But what cover do you have if you rent?....you dont own the plane but you are flying it but you dont have owners insurance on it.

So to fill the gap for renters there is renters insurance. It comes in two parts. The first is BIPD which basically is third party injuries,third party property damage and cover for any passengers you might carry. This costs roughly $85 for a year for $250k cover.

The other or second part covers the airplane. The premiums rise steeply.The cheapest is for $5,000 cover . The premium i cant remember of the top of my head.This part is OPTIONAL on renters policies.

The owner still has insurancefor 'his/her' airplane but if you rent and prang your plane or worse then it gets very legal and expensive and complicated very quickly with words like 'subrogation' being thrown around.

So to sum up....The Traffords insurance is like any holiday insurance product that covers YOU while flying for injuries medical bills etc while renters insurance is more like car insurance.

Hope that helps.

[Fingermouse]

Great posts, and sevenstar :thumbsup:

I have approached Traffords who replied promptly, with a quotation of
**31 days cover - Premium GBP120.00**
Having never purchased this type of insurance, and realising that the final decision is mine alone to make, does this sound like the kind of figure I should expect to pay (for something which in all honesty I cant see myself ever needing but will buy solely because I feel I should)??

Thanks

[Cusco]

Seems a lot: I've just paid £160.00 for annual cover for me and 'er indoors with Traffords.

Renters insurance would seem a good idea too: Kinda like Collision Damage Waiver insurance when you hire a car: covers the 'gap' of the insurance excess which the owner of the a/c will have on his hull insurance.

If you are unfortunate to have a bad dink and you don't have renter's insurance and the insurance people start talking 'subrogation' then be very afraid.

Cusco

[Mariner9]

Traffords are not insurers, they are brokers - they approach the insurance market (various underwriting syndicates who write aviation) on your behalf and shop around to get an appropriate deal. It is important to spell out to them exactly what you are after, and then check the cover they are offering.

Most of the insurance industry is run by crooks, as far as I can gather.

If nobody has made a claim then all you have ascertained is that they hand out bits of paper cheapest. This is generally achieved by refusing to pay out until the day before the inevitable court case.

Pompey Paul - Sorry, but thats just nonsense

Cusco - Subrogation is not always bad, in the insurance world its generally where an insurer is looking to recover claims and will take up the fight against a 3rd party on the assured's behalf. If you were the aircraft owner, wouldn't you want them to do that?

[Shunter]

Sadly too many insurance companies these days are swinging their business model towards, "fight every claim by default, unless the cost of doing so is likely to outweigh the payout or we get spanked by the regulator". Liability appears to have long become a secondary concern.

I made a routine travel insurance claim and the company in question were banged to rights, yet they procrastinated for over a year. The ombudsman got involved (not to mention the information commissioner in regard to their destruction of data rather than disclose under a data access request) and they got royally spanked for it.

Business as usual for the legalised extortion industry it seems.

[PompeyPaul]

Pompey Paul - Sorry, but thats just nonsense

I wish that were true...

[Mariner9]

With all due respect chaps, London didn't become (and has maintained) its position as the world's leading marine and aviation insurance market by acting dishonourably over claims. Aviation Insurance is covered by English marine insurance law which very strictly lays down the relevant principles and procedures.

Shunter - Low cost travel insurance sold to the mass market is one thing, fairly expensive aviation insurance sold to a limited aviation market is another. Was your travel policy underwritten in London?..it may not have been.

I can't recall a post on Pprune with a bad claim story regarding aviation (but stand of course to be corrected), but have seen numerous posts stating that claims have been paid promptly without fuss, including one on this thread.

If anyone has a particularly bad story to tell post it here (and pm private details isuch as reg, date of claim if you like) and I'll pass it onto the relevant lead underwriter when I next see him/her.

[Cusco]

Mariner9

Cusco - Subrogation is not always bad, in the insurance world its generally where an insurer is looking to recover claims and will take up the fight against a 3rd party on the assured's behalf. If you were the aircraft owner, wouldn't you want them to do that?

I'd say that if I were that third party having just dinked a rented aeroplane and I didn't have Renter's insurance and subrogation reared its ugly head, that would be pretty bad.

Fingermouse asked about 'insurance'

Subsequent replies have pointed out that insurance in this situation takes many forms, some of which he doesn't appear to have considered.

Cusco

[Gertrude the Wombat]

made a routine travel insurance claim and the company in question were banged to rights, yet they procrastinated for over a year.

I made a distinctly non-routine travel insurance claim - frightened out of our rented cottage at 5am by a forest fire (which we later discovered stopped after burning half the lawn and didn't actually touch the house), we ran away and stayed in a hotel, and claimed the hotel bill.

Got a cheque by return of post, no questions asked.

[Jodelman]

I'd say that if I were that third party having just dinked a rented aeroplane and I didn't have Renter's insurance and subrogation reared its ugly head, that would be pretty bad.

I think you may be confusing the US system with the UK one. They are very different.

[Cusco]

I only have (first hand) experience of the US system...............

Cusco