NPPL at unlicensed strip?
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NPPL at unlicensed strip?
Hi,
I've been searching all over, and can find no definitive answer to this, so here goes.
I'm currently taking my NPPL at an unlicensed strip in a Eurostar EV97, and all is well - however, it's become apparent that once I gain my NPPL, I won't be able to, for example, hire a C172 (under 2000kg) and take some friends for a trip out, purely due to my license being gained at an unlicensed strip? So I'm not working towards the NPPL SSEA license I thought I was?
From what I have gleaned, I would come out with a NPPL (M) license, and I would need to do 3 hours with an instructor at a licensed field, is that correct?
Any advice is much appreciated!
I've been searching all over, and can find no definitive answer to this, so here goes.
I'm currently taking my NPPL at an unlicensed strip in a Eurostar EV97, and all is well - however, it's become apparent that once I gain my NPPL, I won't be able to, for example, hire a C172 (under 2000kg) and take some friends for a trip out, purely due to my license being gained at an unlicensed strip? So I'm not working towards the NPPL SSEA license I thought I was?
From what I have gleaned, I would come out with a NPPL (M) license, and I would need to do 3 hours with an instructor at a licensed field, is that correct?
Any advice is much appreciated!
I really don't quite know where to start pulling that one apart.
You're not getting a NPPL(M) because you're at an unlicensed strip; if anything you're getting an NPPL(M) because you're training for an NPPL(M).
I'd suggest you try LASORS for the letter of the law and the NPPL website for cross-crediting advice.
You're not getting a NPPL(M) because you're at an unlicensed strip; if anything you're getting an NPPL(M) because you're training for an NPPL(M).
I'd suggest you try LASORS for the letter of the law and the NPPL website for cross-crediting advice.
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http://www.nppl.uk.com/documents/NPPLXCREV08_000.pdf
I agree with JAFO. At present JAA PPL and NPPL must be undertaken at a licensed airfield.
As a Eurostar can be either SEA or Microlight I think you are a bit amiss in not being told or checking yourself.
I agree with JAFO. At present JAA PPL and NPPL must be undertaken at a licensed airfield.
As a Eurostar can be either SEA or Microlight I think you are a bit amiss in not being told or checking yourself.
Caveat emptor!!
Microlight training does not have to be conducted from a licensed or government aerodrome whereas SSEA or SEP Class Rating training does - this includes such training for a NPPL/Microlight holder wishing to include a SSEA Class Rating in his/her licence - see http://www.nppl.uk.com/documents/NPPLXCREV08_000.pdf :
The aerodrome restriction may change in accordance with the LAASG recommendations once the EASA position is clearer.
Upgrading from a NPPL/SSEA to a JAR-FCL PPL(A) also requires that all mandatory training shall have been conducted in accordance with JAR-FCL. Which means by a JAF-FCL Flight Instructor from a licensed or government aerodrome.
The holder of a valid NPPL with Microlight Class Rating or UK PPL (M) licence without restrictions who wishes to obtain a SSEA Class Rating shall:
a. Produce the NPPL or UK PPL (M);
b. Produce logbook evidence of currency on Microlight aircraft;
c. Carry out such SSEA conversion training as is judged necessary by the FI(A) or CRI(SPA) conducting the training to achieve the required standard for the applicant to take the NPPL NST and GST in a SSEA. This training must include:
e. Hold a valid NPPL Medical Declaration or JAA Class 1 or 2 medical certificate;
f. Pass the NPPL NST and GST in a SSEA.
For the holder of a PPL (M) with operating restrictions, the requirements shall further include:
g. The whole of the navigation training required for the NPPL with SSEA Class Rating;
h. The completion of a minimum of 10 hours total solo flying which may be a combination of Microlight and SSEA flying.
b. Produce logbook evidence of currency on Microlight aircraft;
c. Carry out such SSEA conversion training as is judged necessary by the FI(A) or CRI(SPA) conducting the training to achieve the required standard for the applicant to take the NPPL NST and GST in a SSEA. This training must include:
(1) Not less than 1 hour of dual instrument appreciation;
(2) 2 hours stall awareness/spin avoidance training;
(3) Differences training for Microlight pilots whose Microlight flying has been solely on flexwing aircraft;
(4) Not less than the 32 hours required minimum total flight time for the NPPL with SSEA Class Rating, which may be a combination of both Microlight and SSEA flying.
d. Pass the JAR-FCL PPL (A) theoretical examination in Aircraft (General) & Principles of Flight;(2) 2 hours stall awareness/spin avoidance training;
(3) Differences training for Microlight pilots whose Microlight flying has been solely on flexwing aircraft;
(4) Not less than the 32 hours required minimum total flight time for the NPPL with SSEA Class Rating, which may be a combination of both Microlight and SSEA flying.
e. Hold a valid NPPL Medical Declaration or JAA Class 1 or 2 medical certificate;
f. Pass the NPPL NST and GST in a SSEA.
For the holder of a PPL (M) with operating restrictions, the requirements shall further include:
g. The whole of the navigation training required for the NPPL with SSEA Class Rating;
h. The completion of a minimum of 10 hours total solo flying which may be a combination of Microlight and SSEA flying.
The aerodrome restriction may change in accordance with the LAASG recommendations once the EASA position is clearer.
Upgrading from a NPPL/SSEA to a JAR-FCL PPL(A) also requires that all mandatory training shall have been conducted in accordance with JAR-FCL. Which means by a JAF-FCL Flight Instructor from a licensed or government aerodrome.
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Beagle although I am not doubting what you say (in fact I believe it to be correct) I can't see in the link you posted where is actually states that to add a SSEA rating to an NPPL(M) that you need to do it at a licensed aerodrome.
I must admit I find all this licensed aerodrome business a bit silly really. You can do an IMC Rating, a FI rating but you can't do PPL training - strange.
I must admit I find all this licensed aerodrome business a bit silly really. You can do an IMC Rating, a FI rating but you can't do PPL training - strange.
It doesn't need to - it's in the ANO.
Microlight and SLMG training have exemptions. My guess is that the CAA forgot to make the stipulation for the IMC Rating when it first came out.
FI training (except Microlight and/or SLMG, as far as I'm aware) must take place at a FTO, not a RF. Which usually means at a licensed or government aerodrome de facto.
The problem? Unscrupulous 'car boot' instructors who would set up shop in some muddy cow pasture with a shabby old wreck to fly - and who would offer training at unrealistic prices until someone died.....
Unfortunately legislation has to be in place to stop them - and the good, honest folk lose out as a result.
Microlight and SLMG training have exemptions. My guess is that the CAA forgot to make the stipulation for the IMC Rating when it first came out.
FI training (except Microlight and/or SLMG, as far as I'm aware) must take place at a FTO, not a RF. Which usually means at a licensed or government aerodrome de facto.
The problem? Unscrupulous 'car boot' instructors who would set up shop in some muddy cow pasture with a shabby old wreck to fly - and who would offer training at unrealistic prices until someone died.....
Unfortunately legislation has to be in place to stop them - and the good, honest folk lose out as a result.
Last edited by BEagle; 24th Apr 2009 at 13:52.
ANO here http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/cap393.pdf Article 126
Microlight Exemption here:http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/ors4_741.pdf
No need for a Licensed aerodrome for IMC training, IR training or FI training because the person being trained is a licensed pilot capable of making their own decisions regarding the safety of the aerodrome. This "strange" regulation is there to prevent unscrupulous schools endangering students by training from a roundabout in the middle of the A1. Microlights and SLMGs have an exemption on the grounds of mass and the limited amount of fuel they carry.
Aerodromes - public transport of passengers and instruction in flying
126 (1) An aircraft to which this paragraph applies shall not take off or land at a place in the United Kingdom other than:
(a) an aerodrome licensed under this Order for the take-off and landing of such aircraft; or
(b) a Government aerodrome notified as available for the take-off and landing of such aircraft, or in respect of which the person in charge of the aerodrome has given his permission for the particular aircraft to take off or land as the case may be; and in accordance with any conditions subject to which the aerodrome may have been licensed or notified, or subject to which such permission may have been given.
(2) Subject to paragraph (4), paragraph (1) applies to:
(a) any aeroplane of which the maximum total weight authorised exceeds 2730 kg flying on a flight:
(i) for the purpose of the public transport of passengers;
(ii) for the purpose of instruction in flying given to any person for the purpose
of becoming qualified for the grant of a pilot's licence or the inclusion of an
aircraft rating, a night rating or a night qualification in a licence; or
(iii) for the purpose of carrying out flying tests in respect of the grant of a pilot's licence or the inclusion of an aircraft rating or a night rating in a licence;
126 (1) An aircraft to which this paragraph applies shall not take off or land at a place in the United Kingdom other than:
(a) an aerodrome licensed under this Order for the take-off and landing of such aircraft; or
(b) a Government aerodrome notified as available for the take-off and landing of such aircraft, or in respect of which the person in charge of the aerodrome has given his permission for the particular aircraft to take off or land as the case may be; and in accordance with any conditions subject to which the aerodrome may have been licensed or notified, or subject to which such permission may have been given.
(2) Subject to paragraph (4), paragraph (1) applies to:
(a) any aeroplane of which the maximum total weight authorised exceeds 2730 kg flying on a flight:
(i) for the purpose of the public transport of passengers;
(ii) for the purpose of instruction in flying given to any person for the purpose
of becoming qualified for the grant of a pilot's licence or the inclusion of an
aircraft rating, a night rating or a night qualification in a licence; or
(iii) for the purpose of carrying out flying tests in respect of the grant of a pilot's licence or the inclusion of an aircraft rating or a night rating in a licence;
No need for a Licensed aerodrome for IMC training, IR training or FI training because the person being trained is a licensed pilot capable of making their own decisions regarding the safety of the aerodrome. This "strange" regulation is there to prevent unscrupulous schools endangering students by training from a roundabout in the middle of the A1. Microlights and SLMGs have an exemption on the grounds of mass and the limited amount of fuel they carry.
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Anyone eagle-eyed among you may have spotted the fatal flaw in Whopity's quote, it only refers to a/c with a mauw exceeding 2730 kg.
The bit he missed out was para 2 (b)
The bit he missed out was para 2 (b)
(b) any aeroplane of which the maximum total weight authorised does not exceed
2730 kg flying on a flight:
(i) which is a scheduled journey for the purpose of the public transport of
passengers;
(ii) for the purpose of the public transport of passengers beginning and ending
at the same aerodrome;
(iii) for the purpose of:
(aa) instruction in flying given to any person for the purpose of becoming
qualified for the grant of a pilot's licence or the inclusion of an aircraft
rating, a night rating or a night qualification in a licence; or
(bb) a flying test in respect of the grant of a pilot's licence or the inclusion
of an aircraft rating, a night rating or a night qualification in a licence; or
(iv) for the purpose of the public transport of passengers at night;
2730 kg flying on a flight:
(i) which is a scheduled journey for the purpose of the public transport of
passengers;
(ii) for the purpose of the public transport of passengers beginning and ending
at the same aerodrome;
(iii) for the purpose of:
(aa) instruction in flying given to any person for the purpose of becoming
qualified for the grant of a pilot's licence or the inclusion of an aircraft
rating, a night rating or a night qualification in a licence; or
(bb) a flying test in respect of the grant of a pilot's licence or the inclusion
of an aircraft rating, a night rating or a night qualification in a licence; or
(iv) for the purpose of the public transport of passengers at night;
