Mooney article in this month's Flyer
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Bath
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You only have to read the articles on Commercial pilot training to realise that the advertiser rules the written word when it comes to all these mags.
Ian
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,815
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well its very lazy reporting then because all you seem to do is print the latest (you name the integrated school) marketing ****e. With bollocks quotes from the heads of training about how the market is going to pick up soon.
How about an article on the highland flying school going bust and all the people that its effected with some hints on how to avoid getting shafted when a school goes bust. What happens to your training records, how to get you money back off credit card company's etc.
The administration meeting is on the 6th in Perth if you can be bothered, you should be able to get a fair few folk there who have lost alot.
Lets face it its the first big school 100 ppl students+ with about 400 trial flights on its books. And it won't be the last school to go tits up in the next year or two.
How about an article on the highland flying school going bust and all the people that its effected with some hints on how to avoid getting shafted when a school goes bust. What happens to your training records, how to get you money back off credit card company's etc.
The administration meeting is on the 6th in Perth if you can be bothered, you should be able to get a fair few folk there who have lost alot.
Lets face it its the first big school 100 ppl students+ with about 400 trial flights on its books. And it won't be the last school to go tits up in the next year or two.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Snug airplanes
Remember that when the Mooney (and a LOT of other USA origin GA airplanes) was originally designed, in the mid 1950s, a "standard FAA person" weighed 170 lbs.
I'm 62, and I'm not a big guy, and I weigh 165/170 pounds.
People are simply larger nowadays.
We won't even talk about being overweight - which is a separate problem. Through the years, people have gotten larger because of better nutrition, better medical care and so on.
If you look at a suit of armor from some hundred years ago, compared to today, those people were LITTLE.
So Mooneys are "snug", OK, that's part of the price of speed. If we had a wide-body Mooney so our modern "wide-body passengers" had lots of elbow room, the airplane would likely be slower because of the increased frontal area.
If Mooney ever put their "Scorpion" one-off into production, it would be an absolute rocketship! (Military trainer design exercise, two seats, one in front, one in rear, center sticks instead of yokes. One built, I think they gave it to EAA. I'd buy one of those . . . )
I'm 62, and I'm not a big guy, and I weigh 165/170 pounds.
People are simply larger nowadays.
We won't even talk about being overweight - which is a separate problem. Through the years, people have gotten larger because of better nutrition, better medical care and so on.
If you look at a suit of armor from some hundred years ago, compared to today, those people were LITTLE.
So Mooneys are "snug", OK, that's part of the price of speed. If we had a wide-body Mooney so our modern "wide-body passengers" had lots of elbow room, the airplane would likely be slower because of the increased frontal area.
If Mooney ever put their "Scorpion" one-off into production, it would be an absolute rocketship! (Military trainer design exercise, two seats, one in front, one in rear, center sticks instead of yokes. One built, I think they gave it to EAA. I'd buy one of those . . . )
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Scotland
Posts: 417
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flyer and Pilot in my experience give a rough overview of the type being flight "tested" for a much varied audience. When it comes to the researching of buying an aircraft / avionics / engine and making the important comparisons the subscription to Aviation Consumer is worth its weight in gold. This is mainly due to the sheer depth of information on each subject published; which I suppose would be difficult to justify for a mainstream UK recreational flying magazine to print.
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 1,234
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Let me guess the aircraft in question just happens to be for sale.
And this is the whole problem that all UK magazines have. Thier economics mean they would never pay for a flight test, they would barely turn up without expenses. Given that flawed approach is it any wonder that so manyy of these orphan and generally unloved aircraft aircraft are such great machines? Oh and incidently they are for sale as well!!!!!
And this is the whole problem that all UK magazines have. Thier economics mean they would never pay for a flight test, they would barely turn up without expenses. Given that flawed approach is it any wonder that so manyy of these orphan and generally unloved aircraft aircraft are such great machines? Oh and incidently they are for sale as well!!!!!
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Bath
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Let me guess the aircraft in question just happens to be for sale.
Ian
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Bath
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by gasax
And virtully all the other aircraft you test are also co-incidently for sale. And it would just be bad manners to write that the aircraft is pants.......
Some examples
- One accessory manufacturer refused to advertise for ten years because of something we wrote in a review. We stood by our words.
- One manufacturer spent Ł20k on legal fees when they threatened to take us to court over a review of one of their products. We stood by our view and they (eventually) backed down.
- One UK business refuses to advertise because we refuse to sell them editorial alongside their advertising. Now they advertise in a magazine that sells them editorial.
- One importer recently offered a lot of advertising in return for guaranteed editorial and regular cover stories. We didn't pitch for the business.
Rgds
Ian
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One general observation I'd make is that it's pretty rare to find a magazine which openly slags off a product or a service.
I've written quite a lot of stuff over the last few years and some of it has ended up in printed mags (none of the main UK flying mags BTW) but it always gets edited to take out anything which might upset anybody in any way whatsoever.
I suspect that a magazine, like any other business, can afford to adopt a position of utter integrity only if it has sufficient income from elsewhere. So, in my (electronics manufacturing) business I am happy to (very politely) tell any difficult customer to stick his business somewhere warm and dark, but that's only because I have ~ 100 others. Mind you, I still wouldn't do it to the 1 or 2 who make up 20% of my sales
The other thing is that a magazine "reads better" if it is aspirational, upbeat and generally avoids negative comments. That is a great policy if you are producing a mag which is scanned by its buyer in 10 minutes and then either gets tossed in the bin or spends the next couple of years on a flying club cofee table, and this what happens to most mags these days.
Yet the real world isn't 100% upbeat - especially in aviation where "participant satisfaction" depends as much on doing things right, as it depends on avoiding the serious crap. Especially in ownership. The downside of the "upbeat only" approach is that it doesn't really educate readers on the whole required picture. It is only on websites that one can do "warts and all" writeups, and most pilots I personally know tend to agree that most of the practical stuff they learnt about flying came from the internet, not from printed pubs.
In the last few years there has been a sea change in buying habits and most purchasers hit Google when they are looking for something (even if they originally saw it in a mag) and this deprives advertisers of any data on which advertising medium is actually working for them. This is IMHO the main reason why we still have so many special-interest printed publications carrying adverts; if the advertisers were to ever find out what is working they would pull the plug on most printed ads tomorrow.
So I think the mags do have to be on the whole careful what they write, but the successful ones can afford to adopt positions of integrity on the odd topic here and there. One example of that is the U.S. "Flying" mag which was critical of the Eclipse project and reportedly was excluded from their pretty significant ad budget in revenge. I recall similar cases from my 1970s/1980s motorbike days; the "Bike" mag lost all of Honda's adverts for some years, in revenge for a scathing (if 100% accurate IMHO) writeup on some machine of theirs.
I've written quite a lot of stuff over the last few years and some of it has ended up in printed mags (none of the main UK flying mags BTW) but it always gets edited to take out anything which might upset anybody in any way whatsoever.
I suspect that a magazine, like any other business, can afford to adopt a position of utter integrity only if it has sufficient income from elsewhere. So, in my (electronics manufacturing) business I am happy to (very politely) tell any difficult customer to stick his business somewhere warm and dark, but that's only because I have ~ 100 others. Mind you, I still wouldn't do it to the 1 or 2 who make up 20% of my sales
The other thing is that a magazine "reads better" if it is aspirational, upbeat and generally avoids negative comments. That is a great policy if you are producing a mag which is scanned by its buyer in 10 minutes and then either gets tossed in the bin or spends the next couple of years on a flying club cofee table, and this what happens to most mags these days.
Yet the real world isn't 100% upbeat - especially in aviation where "participant satisfaction" depends as much on doing things right, as it depends on avoiding the serious crap. Especially in ownership. The downside of the "upbeat only" approach is that it doesn't really educate readers on the whole required picture. It is only on websites that one can do "warts and all" writeups, and most pilots I personally know tend to agree that most of the practical stuff they learnt about flying came from the internet, not from printed pubs.
In the last few years there has been a sea change in buying habits and most purchasers hit Google when they are looking for something (even if they originally saw it in a mag) and this deprives advertisers of any data on which advertising medium is actually working for them. This is IMHO the main reason why we still have so many special-interest printed publications carrying adverts; if the advertisers were to ever find out what is working they would pull the plug on most printed ads tomorrow.
So I think the mags do have to be on the whole careful what they write, but the successful ones can afford to adopt positions of integrity on the odd topic here and there. One example of that is the U.S. "Flying" mag which was critical of the Eclipse project and reportedly was excluded from their pretty significant ad budget in revenge. I recall similar cases from my 1970s/1980s motorbike days; the "Bike" mag lost all of Honda's adverts for some years, in revenge for a scathing (if 100% accurate IMHO) writeup on some machine of theirs.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 4,631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Since this thread has diversified into mags and their content and Ian has been good enough to comment I do wish the UK mags would publish a few articles of substance. I find all the UK mags focus on glossy pictures and “clever” text layout. I would imagine the total word count is very small. I admit to being a fan of Flying. I also accept Flying covers the biz jet market to some degree, although I am not sure a great deal more than the UK mags. However Flying is always a jolly good read. The articles are invariably interesting and informative with an appeal far beyond the average student pilot. I guess the absence of glossy material helps reduce the publishing costs and in consequence even by the time it reaches this side of the Pond it is nearly a quarter the cost of the UK mags.
Ian, in short I do not profess for one moment to know or understand your business, but unless it does not make commercial sense, please can we have a UK mag that is modelled on Flying – I reckon many more pilots would buy it.
Ian, in short I do not profess for one moment to know or understand your business, but unless it does not make commercial sense, please can we have a UK mag that is modelled on Flying – I reckon many more pilots would buy it.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Bath
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ian, in short I do not profess for one moment to know or understand your business, but unless it does not make commercial sense, please can we have a UK mag that is modelled on Flying – I reckon many more pilots would buy it.
Ian
Join Date: May 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 4,631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ian - I think you do have a strong line up, give them their head a little more if you can, and we might get better technical content and in depth analysis - I am sure it makes sense.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Bath
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ian - I think you do have a strong line up, give them their head a little more if you can, and we might get better technical content and in depth analysis - I am sure it makes sense.
Ian
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Different model, different market
There have been many threads on here over the years, wondering why the UK mags are so different to the US ones.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Bath
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ian - I think you do have a strong line up, give them their head a little more if you can, and we might get better technical content and in depth analysis - I am sure it makes sense.
Ian
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: UK,Twighlight Zone
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I personally think Ian does a pretty good job in printing balanced articles. Especially when you consider some of the drivel that gets printed elsewhere, peoples holiday write-ups etc. Don't even start me on the multi parters....
You can't keep all of the people happy all of the time and it will be inevitable that some people will not agree with what is written. I flown a few different Mooney's and to be frank dislike them. There is no doubt they are quick but they don't have the short field, weight lifting capacity etc of something like a 182. Even though I do not have the adonis profile of Mr Seager(I weight 190lbs), I still find them cramped and uncomfortable with another 'average' person in the RHS. As a long distance tourer with the wife and weekend bags they are OK. But I will take our Malibu over a Mooney anytime.
You can't keep all of the people happy all of the time and it will be inevitable that some people will not agree with what is written. I flown a few different Mooney's and to be frank dislike them. There is no doubt they are quick but they don't have the short field, weight lifting capacity etc of something like a 182. Even though I do not have the adonis profile of Mr Seager(I weight 190lbs), I still find them cramped and uncomfortable with another 'average' person in the RHS. As a long distance tourer with the wife and weekend bags they are OK. But I will take our Malibu over a Mooney anytime.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: London
Age: 68
Posts: 1,269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree Bose-X, although i d like a little less flashy lay-out giving way to a little more relavant text....
To me the difference with Flying is, it s less of a reading magazine which lasts me a month.... It s more something to pick up, flick through ad put away again, unfortunately
To me the difference with Flying is, it s less of a reading magazine which lasts me a month.... It s more something to pick up, flick through ad put away again, unfortunately
Join Date: May 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 4,631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To me the difference with Flying is, it s less of a reading magazine which lasts me a month.... It s more something to pick up, flick through ad put away again, unfortunately