Experimental aircraft flight time
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 24
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From: Malaysia
Experimental aircraft flight time
Hello!
Would greatly appreciate if anyone from any country can provide some documented evidence regarding how flight time logged on experimental aircraft counts towards your career flight time.
Current problem in my country -
Quite a few of us (PPL holders) started off our training on experimental aircraft, and obtained PPL(Restricted). After that, we did a type conversion to a certified aircraft (eg. Cessna 172) and got that rating, as well as the term (Restricted) is removed from the PPL license.
A friend of mine has clocked many many hours on experimental aircraft and a few hours on Cessna 172 as a PPL holder. When he later enrolled for a CPL course, he was told by the authority that NO credit hours will be given for hours clocked on experimental aircraft.
Is there any documented evidence regarding hours logged on experimental aircraft with regards to requirements for advancement such as CPL or AFI etc etc?
Would greatly appreciate if anyone from any country can provide some documented evidence regarding how flight time logged on experimental aircraft counts towards your career flight time.
Current problem in my country -
Quite a few of us (PPL holders) started off our training on experimental aircraft, and obtained PPL(Restricted). After that, we did a type conversion to a certified aircraft (eg. Cessna 172) and got that rating, as well as the term (Restricted) is removed from the PPL license.
A friend of mine has clocked many many hours on experimental aircraft and a few hours on Cessna 172 as a PPL holder. When he later enrolled for a CPL course, he was told by the authority that NO credit hours will be given for hours clocked on experimental aircraft.
Is there any documented evidence regarding hours logged on experimental aircraft with regards to requirements for advancement such as CPL or AFI etc etc?
Red On, Green On
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 6,490
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From: Between the woods and the water
In the UK there is no class called "experimental aircraft". Microlights (under 450KG AUW) may be comparable, and microlight time does not count towards CPL etc., either. It does count towards FI (Microlight), who can be paid, but nothing else.
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
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From: UK
I've no idea what experimental means in Malaysia, but I'm going to assume for the moment that it mimics the US/FAA system.
The US system has essentially two types of experimental. Research experimental and homebuilt experimental.
In the UK, the equivalents to this would be B-conditions and Permit to Fly.
Nobody would be allowed to fly a B-conditions flight unless a qualified pilot on type, but a PtF can under some conditions be used for training. That said, as with the USA, hours in both are normally allowable for normal logging and considered as part of your total flying experience.
With one exception that is - in the US there's a deregulated lightweight single seat category called Ultralight as defined in FAR-103. In the UK we have a broader category called Microlight which covers single seat aeroplanes up to 300kg MTOW/35 kn stall, and 2-seat aeroplanes up to 450kg MTOW 35 kn stall. So far as I know none of these classes of aircraft can allow you to log hours towards licences in larger aircraft categories.
Ultimately however, all of these aircraft: microlight, ultralight, experimental or Permit are "sub-ICAO" - that is, they exist below the radar of international regulations. That fact means that no international benchmark is of any use to you because all sub-ICAO aircraft are treated only as the local national authority sees fit. In other words, if you are a Malaysian pilot, flying Malaysian registered experimental aircraft, the only organisation whose opinion carries any weight is the Malaysian national airworthiness authority.
G
The US system has essentially two types of experimental. Research experimental and homebuilt experimental.
In the UK, the equivalents to this would be B-conditions and Permit to Fly.
Nobody would be allowed to fly a B-conditions flight unless a qualified pilot on type, but a PtF can under some conditions be used for training. That said, as with the USA, hours in both are normally allowable for normal logging and considered as part of your total flying experience.
With one exception that is - in the US there's a deregulated lightweight single seat category called Ultralight as defined in FAR-103. In the UK we have a broader category called Microlight which covers single seat aeroplanes up to 300kg MTOW/35 kn stall, and 2-seat aeroplanes up to 450kg MTOW 35 kn stall. So far as I know none of these classes of aircraft can allow you to log hours towards licences in larger aircraft categories.
Ultimately however, all of these aircraft: microlight, ultralight, experimental or Permit are "sub-ICAO" - that is, they exist below the radar of international regulations. That fact means that no international benchmark is of any use to you because all sub-ICAO aircraft are treated only as the local national authority sees fit. In other words, if you are a Malaysian pilot, flying Malaysian registered experimental aircraft, the only organisation whose opinion carries any weight is the Malaysian national airworthiness authority.
G
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
From: Malaysia
Thanks for the help guys!
Yes, I was refering to "experimental" aircraft as amateur built, somewhat like FAA's version.
I have tried looking through LASORS also, & there is no mention about it.
I guess it's all up to individual country's authority to decide...
Yes, I was refering to "experimental" aircraft as amateur built, somewhat like FAA's version.
I have tried looking through LASORS also, & there is no mention about it.
I guess it's all up to individual country's authority to decide...
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
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From: UK
I owned a canard aircraft once, scared me every time I flew it. To be fair, it lay somewhere on a line of design maturity between Wright Flyer and Longeze and wasn't that close to the Longeze.
The Longeze in the UK flies on a Permit to Fly under control of the PFA/LAA; it's regarded for licencing purposes as an SEP but can't be used for training, unless of the sole owner.
G
The Longeze in the UK flies on a Permit to Fly under control of the PFA/LAA; it's regarded for licencing purposes as an SEP but can't be used for training, unless of the sole owner.
G
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 829
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From: South Wales
Think I'll scrap the idea of wanting to fly one then 
... although there are quite a few flying in the US.
Would the hours still log as normal though? i.e. If a pilot was to hold a PPL and 100hrs TT, if he flew 200hrs in the Long-Ez would that clock the TT to 300hrs? I imagine it would but I'm not sure if it would work like ultralight/glider hours where they would not count.
I guess this interest in the canard-pusher AC stems from watching too many sport, homebuilt and experimental aircraft shows on TV as a kid.
... although there are quite a few flying in the US.Would the hours still log as normal though? i.e. If a pilot was to hold a PPL and 100hrs TT, if he flew 200hrs in the Long-Ez would that clock the TT to 300hrs? I imagine it would but I'm not sure if it would work like ultralight/glider hours where they would not count.
I guess this interest in the canard-pusher AC stems from watching too many sport, homebuilt and experimental aircraft shows on TV as a kid.
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2000
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From: UK
Yes, the hours all count.
Also, the reason for problems with canard aircraft in rain, is that the laminar flow canard on some doesn't handle being wet. There are various solutions to this - the easiest of which is just not to fly it near rain.
G
Also, the reason for problems with canard aircraft in rain, is that the laminar flow canard on some doesn't handle being wet. There are various solutions to this - the easiest of which is just not to fly it near rain.
G
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 14,480
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From: UK
The only document which will count for you will be something issued by the Malaysian national authority - you need to talk to them.
Or on the other hand, if there is not document saying that the hours don't count....
G
Or on the other hand, if there is not document saying that the hours don't count....
G
