FAA PPL in G Reg to France?
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FAA PPL in G Reg to France?
Can a UK citizen with a stand-alone FAA PPL (no JAR licence) fly a G Reg aircraft to France - legally? I have read the ANO and think I can, but I want that to be the answer, does anyone know if I am right?
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(4) For the purposes of this Part of this Order:
(a) subject to sub-paragraph (b), a licence granted either under the law of a
Contracting State other than the United Kingdom but which is not a JAA licence
or a licence granted under the law of a relevant overseas territory, purporting in
either case to authorise the holder to act as a member of the flight crew of an
aircraft, not being a licence purporting to authorise him to act as a student pilot
only, shall, unless the CAA gives a direction to the contrary, be deemed to be a
licence rendered valid under this Order but does not entitle the holder:
(i) to act as a member of the flight crew of any aircraft flying for the purpose
of public transport or aerial work or on any flight in respect of which he
receives remuneration for his services as a member of the flight crew; or
(ii) in the case of a pilot's licence, to act as pilot of any aircraft flying in
controlled airspace in circumstances requiring compliance with the
Instrument Flight Rules or to give any instruction in flying;
My interpretation is that this allows a FAA licence holder (among others) to fly a G reg aircraft, VFR, Non commercial.
However Article 26 part 11 states
(11) Notwithstanding anything in this article:
(a) the holder of a licence granted or rendered valid under this Order, being a licence
endorsed to the effect that the holder does not satisfy in full the relevant
minimum standards established under the Chicago Convention, shall not act as
a member of the flight crew of an aircraft registered in the United Kingdom in or
over the territory of a Contracting State other than the United Kingdom except in
accordance with permission granted by the competent authorities of that State;
Which I think means permission needs to be granted, in this case, by the French authorities.
(a) subject to sub-paragraph (b), a licence granted either under the law of a
Contracting State other than the United Kingdom but which is not a JAA licence
or a licence granted under the law of a relevant overseas territory, purporting in
either case to authorise the holder to act as a member of the flight crew of an
aircraft, not being a licence purporting to authorise him to act as a student pilot
only, shall, unless the CAA gives a direction to the contrary, be deemed to be a
licence rendered valid under this Order but does not entitle the holder:
(i) to act as a member of the flight crew of any aircraft flying for the purpose
of public transport or aerial work or on any flight in respect of which he
receives remuneration for his services as a member of the flight crew; or
(ii) in the case of a pilot's licence, to act as pilot of any aircraft flying in
controlled airspace in circumstances requiring compliance with the
Instrument Flight Rules or to give any instruction in flying;
My interpretation is that this allows a FAA licence holder (among others) to fly a G reg aircraft, VFR, Non commercial.
However Article 26 part 11 states
(11) Notwithstanding anything in this article:
(a) the holder of a licence granted or rendered valid under this Order, being a licence
endorsed to the effect that the holder does not satisfy in full the relevant
minimum standards established under the Chicago Convention, shall not act as
a member of the flight crew of an aircraft registered in the United Kingdom in or
over the territory of a Contracting State other than the United Kingdom except in
accordance with permission granted by the competent authorities of that State;
Which I think means permission needs to be granted, in this case, by the French authorities.
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I think that
means that sub ICAO licenses (e.g. some foreign version of the UK NPPL like the US Sports Pilot license) or licenses with a sub ICAO medical (e.g. an ICAO PPL with a special concession medical valid only in the issuer's airspace) are not valid for this purpose.
That would be reasonable. Almost nobody validates sub ICAO licenses.
I don't think the French have any say in this at all - short of a specific ban.
An FAA PPL is 100% ICAO compliant.
being a licence
endorsed to the effect that the holder does not satisfy in full the relevant
minimum standards established under the Chicago Convention
endorsed to the effect that the holder does not satisfy in full the relevant
minimum standards established under the Chicago Convention
That would be reasonable. Almost nobody validates sub ICAO licenses.
I don't think the French have any say in this at all - short of a specific ban.
An FAA PPL is 100% ICAO compliant.
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Thanks
Thanks IO540, that was my interpretation too. Now I just have to convince any DGAC official who might stop me. I'm going to take a translation of the relevant section of ANO with me, jut in case!
Because a UK Reg aircraft is operated in accordance with the UK ANO wherever it may be in the world. If our rules for who can legally fly it are different from theirs, then the UK ANO is the only way to verify it!
Possibly the same reason they would be interested in your UK Insurance Certificate.
Possibly the same reason they would be interested in your UK Insurance Certificate.
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Whopity,
I can't exactly agree with you on that issue. Yes, a G-Reg plane has to be operated in compliance with the ANO. It also has to be operated in compliance with the rules of the state in which it operates, so in this case France. If the rules are contradictory, you will have to apply the most restricting rules.
And to make matters even more complicated, in this case he will also have to comply with FAA rules concerning licence holder privileges, and again, the most restrictive of the three here will apply.
This concept of contradicting rules actually applies for everything regulated, licenses, rules of the air etc...
I can't exactly agree with you on that issue. Yes, a G-Reg plane has to be operated in compliance with the ANO. It also has to be operated in compliance with the rules of the state in which it operates, so in this case France. If the rules are contradictory, you will have to apply the most restricting rules.
And to make matters even more complicated, in this case he will also have to comply with FAA rules concerning licence holder privileges, and again, the most restrictive of the three here will apply.
This concept of contradicting rules actually applies for everything regulated, licenses, rules of the air etc...
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Yes, a G-Reg plane has to be operated in compliance with the ANO. It also has to be operated in compliance with the rules of the state in which it operates, so in this case France. If the rules are contradictory, you will have to apply the most restricting rules.
I am not aware of any example (in Europe or USA) where an ICAO member has banned somebody else's aircraft/paperwork combination. Each member has jurisdiction over its airspace and thus could in theory do this, but if this happened in a widespread manner it would make a mockery of ICAO and international aviation would grind to a halt.
In the 3rd world there are plenty of bans in place against aircraft registered in countries with whom one is at war, etc. And even Spain did not, AFAIK, permit flights departing for Gibraltar from Spanish territory (though AFAIK they did allow overflights). You might have some fun overflying Iran in a plane registered in Israel, perhaps
But can you think of a ban specific to an aircraft registry / license combination??There are much bigger issues e.g. landing an N-reg in France without carrying a certificate of having paid EU VAT. Confiscation is a possible worst-case outcome.
It also has to be operated in compliance with the rules of the state in which it operates, so in this case France. If the rules are contradictory, you will have to apply the most restricting rules.
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Now I just have to convince any DGAC official who might stop me.
