Blocked Runway
Joined: Oct 2000
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From: E Anglia
You are lucky to have a gate: our strip is completely open to the countryside and unsecurable.
Despite 3 foot high signs in Red/White on two Hangars declaring 'Danger Active airstrip Keep Off', the entire world and his brother treats it as open pasture, ignoring the fact that it is in the middle of private farmland.
Cusco.
Despite 3 foot high signs in Red/White on two Hangars declaring 'Danger Active airstrip Keep Off', the entire world and his brother treats it as open pasture, ignoring the fact that it is in the middle of private farmland.
Cusco.
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,102
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From: E Anglia
We're thinking of inviting the Apaches from nearby RAF Wattisham to carry out a few day and night exercises over the strip.
A laser aiming beam from an Apache onto the midnight boy-racers' Astras as they carve up the strip doing donuts and handbrake turns might have a sobering effect.....
Cusco
A laser aiming beam from an Apache onto the midnight boy-racers' Astras as they carve up the strip doing donuts and handbrake turns might have a sobering effect.....
Cusco
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 239
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From: France
Bazookas, barbed wire, lasers, killer robots... You are all out of order.
Farmstrips are used 99% of the time for walking dogs and just 1% of the time for aviation. Remember that even on foggy, rainy days the dogs are still there. To the people in the area it is the aircraft that are unwelcome guests and not the other way around.
They also don't appreciate the dangers, but this is not their fault. I am sure that if the pilots of Pprune went to a gun club the members would shake their heads at the dangerous things they'd do.
There is only one solution that works: engaging with the local community. Go out to the field yourself one day and chat with the dog owners. Tell them that they are welcome to walk their dogs there but whenever they see an aircraft approaching they should leave the field, restrain their animals until the engine is switched off and never turn their back on the air traffic.
Farmstrips are used 99% of the time for walking dogs and just 1% of the time for aviation. Remember that even on foggy, rainy days the dogs are still there. To the people in the area it is the aircraft that are unwelcome guests and not the other way around.
They also don't appreciate the dangers, but this is not their fault. I am sure that if the pilots of Pprune went to a gun club the members would shake their heads at the dangerous things they'd do.
There is only one solution that works: engaging with the local community. Go out to the field yourself one day and chat with the dog owners. Tell them that they are welcome to walk their dogs there but whenever they see an aircraft approaching they should leave the field, restrain their animals until the engine is switched off and never turn their back on the air traffic.
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,546
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From: Oxford, UK
It is only good manners to phone ahead for prior permission.
It is only self-preservation to have enough fuel to go elsewhere; did you plan to refuel at this farm strip?
I'm wondering what you were flying at the time.
Glider pilots, before going cross country, must understand how to select a safe landing field. In addition to Size, Slope and Surface, we must look out for animals, and cricket players. If a field is cluttered with dogs, people, horses, you must go elsewhere.
It is only self-preservation to have enough fuel to go elsewhere; did you plan to refuel at this farm strip?
I'm wondering what you were flying at the time.
Glider pilots, before going cross country, must understand how to select a safe landing field. In addition to Size, Slope and Surface, we must look out for animals, and cricket players. If a field is cluttered with dogs, people, horses, you must go elsewhere.
Joined: Sep 2001
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
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From: Toronto
SSSLOW for Outlandings
Slope, Surface, Stock, Length, Obstacles, Wind is the checklist.
Of course in a glider, go-arounds are not an option, but glider pilots at busy clubs get lots of practice slotting landings around other gliders and retrieve vehicles, and trying to avoid obstructing the glider behind. It does help to have a 50 yard landing roll
My favorite outlanding field is bare and regularly cultivated -- decent surface, no stock, rocks generally removed, not much crop to damage or cause a groundloop, unattractive to strollers and animals.
Even better is a strip where the towplane can come get me. A few strollers and/or animals in one spot a glider can work around, but a crowd is a different matter.
Of course in a glider, go-arounds are not an option, but glider pilots at busy clubs get lots of practice slotting landings around other gliders and retrieve vehicles, and trying to avoid obstructing the glider behind. It does help to have a 50 yard landing roll
My favorite outlanding field is bare and regularly cultivated -- decent surface, no stock, rocks generally removed, not much crop to damage or cause a groundloop, unattractive to strollers and animals.
Even better is a strip where the towplane can come get me. A few strollers and/or animals in one spot a glider can work around, but a crowd is a different matter.
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,102
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From: E Anglia
Thread drift has rather missed the point: The original poster relates to problems at an established airstrip where aeroplanes might reasonably be expected to land, not a ruddy great field miles from anywhere that gliders tend to plonk in out of a choice of dozens of such fields .
There is a bit of a difference.
Cusco
There is a bit of a difference.
Cusco
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,546
Likes: 2
From: Oxford, UK
blocked airstrip
Thanks, Cusco. There is a difference between a ruddy big field and a
farm airstrip. Usually a farm strip is narrow, short, and has tall trees at one end and power lines at the other! To have locals walking their dogs is the last straw, but unfortunately it happens.
If the strip is sufficiently popular and has enough traffic that aeroplanes might reasonably be expected to land from time to time, it should be signposted by the owner/farmer to warn the public, and have a nice unobstructed windsock in the middle.
Otherwise we must give way to those who do not appreciate the requirements of air traffic.
There are worse things than landing in a ruddy big field.
farm airstrip. Usually a farm strip is narrow, short, and has tall trees at one end and power lines at the other! To have locals walking their dogs is the last straw, but unfortunately it happens.
If the strip is sufficiently popular and has enough traffic that aeroplanes might reasonably be expected to land from time to time, it should be signposted by the owner/farmer to warn the public, and have a nice unobstructed windsock in the middle.
Otherwise we must give way to those who do not appreciate the requirements of air traffic.
There are worse things than landing in a ruddy big field.
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,102
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From: E Anglia
If the strip is sufficiently popular and has enough traffic that aeroplanes might reasonably be expected to land from time to time, it should be signposted by the owner/farmer to warn the public, and have a nice unobstructed windsock in the middle.
Except no power lines and no trees: it's wide and long with clear approaches for miles.
It is barn door obvious that a/c fly from there as they indeed have done since 1974.
That doesn't stop the locals walking their dogs, riding their horses, flying their kites and even turning up in 4 x 4s for a shoot (yes, really).
A fair bit of afterdark Astra donutting , boozing and not a little sh*gging as evidenced by the cans bottles and rubberware left lying about.
Short of having armed watchtowers there's s*d all we can do about it:
Go some where else to land? Get real, my car's in the hangar..............
You can bet your sweet bippy I will land there eventually.
Not had to divert yet. Like I and others have said above, a (legal) baulked landing as the Yanks call it does the trick.
(Day only of course, what they do after dark is not relevant: a strip run in the morning before take off sorts out the previous night's detritus)
Yeuch: but somebody's got to do it.
And there's always Article 73 of the ANO.
Cusco
Last edited by Cusco; 12th March 2009 at 23:23.
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,102
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From: E Anglia
Certainly - nowhere was it mentioned to be an established airstrip as Cusco suggests.
Or are you suggesting private strips pop up overnight, operate for a few days then disappear as quickly as they came?
I agree it's a shame hatzflyer hasn't bothered to return as, amongst all the thread drift all his questions have been answered more than adequately.
Cusco
Joined: Jan 2002
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From: Niort
To you and I 'an established strip' is fairly obvious. To Joe Public it simply isn't. That is the point we have to understand.
That big strip of mown grass, the windsock, the hangar - they don't mean anything to the average dog walker. In most cases they will not have seen an aircraft on the strip, if they have seen an aircraft in the vicinity they will not have linked it to that long strip of mown grass - aircraft do not land in fields is the usual response.
I've operated several strips and it frustrates me that pilots can be so stupid and arrogant when it comes to not seeing the viewpoint of the 'general public'. If you talk to them they are ALL surprised that it is possible to land in a field, legal to land in a field and that the police do not stop us landing in fields, thta we do not need permission from 'air traffic control' to land in fields.
That is why so many strips have all sorts of restrictions, why PPR is so necessary. The trouble that the original poster - and many others in this thread - can cause the strip operator is almost limitless.
That is why at my last strip we would only accept visits from people we knew well and why many of those we knew and all we did not, were simply not allowed.
That big strip of mown grass, the windsock, the hangar - they don't mean anything to the average dog walker. In most cases they will not have seen an aircraft on the strip, if they have seen an aircraft in the vicinity they will not have linked it to that long strip of mown grass - aircraft do not land in fields is the usual response.
I've operated several strips and it frustrates me that pilots can be so stupid and arrogant when it comes to not seeing the viewpoint of the 'general public'. If you talk to them they are ALL surprised that it is possible to land in a field, legal to land in a field and that the police do not stop us landing in fields, thta we do not need permission from 'air traffic control' to land in fields.
That is why so many strips have all sorts of restrictions, why PPR is so necessary. The trouble that the original poster - and many others in this thread - can cause the strip operator is almost limitless.
That is why at my last strip we would only accept visits from people we knew well and why many of those we knew and all we did not, were simply not allowed.
Joined: Jan 2008
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From: France
if they have seen an aircraft in the vicinity they will not have linked it to that long strip of mown grass - aircraft do not land in fields is the usual response
Even if people are vaguely aware that there might be smaller ones very few can believe that they can actually land on grass and without a control tower. It's not their fault. They don't know about aviation. I don't know about hunting. Maybe you know nothing about stamp collecting. It's not against the law.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 399
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From: suffolk
It is an established strip.
There is no ppr.
There is no phone at the strip.
There was no-one else on the ground (to shoo them away).
Whats the point of phoning before departure? The walkers won't be there then!
Can't legally use my mobile when airbourne.(No one to phone anyway).
I had enough fuel to reach an alternative in Germany if need be.
(I didn't SAY I was low on fuel) but A/C do develop problems.
I can't speak to them because I would have to BL$$DY land !!!
There is no ppr.
There is no phone at the strip.
There was no-one else on the ground (to shoo them away).
Whats the point of phoning before departure? The walkers won't be there then!
Can't legally use my mobile when airbourne.(No one to phone anyway).
I had enough fuel to reach an alternative in Germany if need be.
(I didn't SAY I was low on fuel) but A/C do develop problems.
I can't speak to them because I would have to BL$$DY land !!!
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,546
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From: Oxford, UK
Cusco; returning to your home strip, with your car in the hangar, suggests you know the local hazards and presumably are on friendly terms with the villagers?! So a "balked landing" may suffice to call attention to your intentions.
Strangers using your strip, without PP, should be less assured of a welcome.
Only one thing worries me, though, safetywise: that compulsion to get back to your car.. . . . . .
Strangers using your strip, without PP, should be less assured of a welcome.
Only one thing worries me, though, safetywise: that compulsion to get back to your car.. . . . . .
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,102
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From: E Anglia
Without wishing to prolong the agony of this thread: MM, Yes I do know the locals as we have a 20 year lease on the strip from the farmer.The strip is actually a long way from any habitation, situated as it is in the middle of a disused WW2 airfield long since returned to farmland.
It is clearly a strip as seen from the ground: there are hangars with big red warning notices (see earlier posts) and a windsock.
We do not encourage visitors by air and there are no markings on the ground to identify it as a strip from the air for this reason. We are strictly PPR for a good reason: 20 years ago an illegal para outfit arrived and caused great hassle with the locals before they were ejected: we now have a strict PPR briefing for visitors with charts showing noise sensitive areas which are emailed to anybody wishing to fly in.
Obviously my wish to return to my car would not cloud my judgement on safety grounds: I do hope you're not suggesting it would. Clearly if I returned to find a tent pitched in the middle I would go elsewhere.
I don't visit PPRuNe very often as sooner or later personal attack creeps in: 'arrogant' has already been mentioned in this thread.
The users of our strip are all well aware that its active - they are largely locals: (its well off the beaten track out of sight of 'passing trade') and will respond to an overhead join (not below 500ft), a change in engine note , a landing light and a dropping of the gear.
The go-around is a final but rarely used completely legal option.
Out
Cusco
It is clearly a strip as seen from the ground: there are hangars with big red warning notices (see earlier posts) and a windsock.
We do not encourage visitors by air and there are no markings on the ground to identify it as a strip from the air for this reason. We are strictly PPR for a good reason: 20 years ago an illegal para outfit arrived and caused great hassle with the locals before they were ejected: we now have a strict PPR briefing for visitors with charts showing noise sensitive areas which are emailed to anybody wishing to fly in.
Obviously my wish to return to my car would not cloud my judgement on safety grounds: I do hope you're not suggesting it would. Clearly if I returned to find a tent pitched in the middle I would go elsewhere.
I don't visit PPRuNe very often as sooner or later personal attack creeps in: 'arrogant' has already been mentioned in this thread.
The users of our strip are all well aware that its active - they are largely locals: (its well off the beaten track out of sight of 'passing trade') and will respond to an overhead join (not below 500ft), a change in engine note , a landing light and a dropping of the gear.
The go-around is a final but rarely used completely legal option.
Out
Cusco
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2008
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From: suffolk
Slight thread drift but relevant to my original post with the giro incident.
Many horsey types have posted about aircraft scaring horses on the hunt,but they are quite happy to canter up my runway, double standards???
Many horsey types have posted about aircraft scaring horses on the hunt,but they are quite happy to canter up my runway, double standards???
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: Norfolk UK
I remember doing my tailwheel conversion at Clacton,and there is a footpath across the runway!
Most of the locals seemed to respect the fact that aircraft were operating,but the odd one seemed to be totally unaware of what was going on.
I fly from a grass strip and we have a "neighbours day" when we entertain,feed and take them flying.
It does help a lot with local relations.
Lister
Most of the locals seemed to respect the fact that aircraft were operating,but the odd one seemed to be totally unaware of what was going on.
I fly from a grass strip and we have a "neighbours day" when we entertain,feed and take them flying.
It does help a lot with local relations.
Lister