Formation Flying
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Formation Flying
Hi guys,
I just wondered what the current rules were with regards to formation flying. I know that it is permitted as long as each aircraft commander that is taking part in the formation agrees beforehand to partake in it. Also, I guess you have to file a flightplan stating that you will be travelling in formation?
Also, when arriving and departing an aerodrome, are aircraft allowed to depart and land in formation (ala the Red Arrows) in controlled airspace or would ATC insist that only 'one at a time' would be allowed into and out of the airfield?
I was just curious. I know the military operate under a completely different set of regulations but wondered what the CAA's view on it was.
Cheers,
Champ
I just wondered what the current rules were with regards to formation flying. I know that it is permitted as long as each aircraft commander that is taking part in the formation agrees beforehand to partake in it. Also, I guess you have to file a flightplan stating that you will be travelling in formation?
Also, when arriving and departing an aerodrome, are aircraft allowed to depart and land in formation (ala the Red Arrows) in controlled airspace or would ATC insist that only 'one at a time' would be allowed into and out of the airfield?
I was just curious. I know the military operate under a completely different set of regulations but wondered what the CAA's view on it was.
Cheers,
Champ
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Champ,
Compotent training for formation flying is vital for safety. I must not be caually undertaken, and ATC must be notified. They will generally handle the group of aircraft as one to the greatest extent possible.
Multiple aircraft on the runway is extra dangerous, and requires excellent pilot disipline and skill. Training and practice!
Do not go formation flying (within 250 feet of each other) with your buddies until until you've got the training, and the aircraft owner's permission. Many owners will not permit it, and you don't want to be on the wrong side of the insurance company either....
Fly safe, Pilot DAR
Compotent training for formation flying is vital for safety. I must not be caually undertaken, and ATC must be notified. They will generally handle the group of aircraft as one to the greatest extent possible.
Multiple aircraft on the runway is extra dangerous, and requires excellent pilot disipline and skill. Training and practice!
Do not go formation flying (within 250 feet of each other) with your buddies until until you've got the training, and the aircraft owner's permission. Many owners will not permit it, and you don't want to be on the wrong side of the insurance company either....
Fly safe, Pilot DAR
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Do not try formation flying before getting some proper training. Please dont just get a few tips from someone who used to do it and then go and try it. There are some schools that offer a course.
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thanks Pilot DAR and will fly for food 06 for your replies. I am aware of the dangers and I certainly won't be doing any close formation flying. I was merely wondering what the rules were. I am interested in doing an aerobatics and formation flying course after I've obtained my PPL.
Cheers gents,
Champ
Cheers gents,
Champ
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To answer a couple of your questions
you don't need to file a flight plan
Airtraffic seem to like it. They get rid of 2 or 3 aircraft and they only have to talk to one of them. They more or less ignore the rest of the formation.
And to echo what everyone else has said, don't try it without training. It is fabulous fun. Formation Aeros is terrific fun and dog fighting is even better. You'll never want to fly alone again. (Oddly also the hardest place to fly in a formation is number 1.)
you don't need to file a flight plan
Airtraffic seem to like it. They get rid of 2 or 3 aircraft and they only have to talk to one of them. They more or less ignore the rest of the formation.
And to echo what everyone else has said, don't try it without training. It is fabulous fun. Formation Aeros is terrific fun and dog fighting is even better. You'll never want to fly alone again. (Oddly also the hardest place to fly in a formation is number 1.)
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Also don't forget that only one aircraft in a formation will be using a transponder.
There is some general information and a video here also:
ONTRACK AVIATION LIMITED
There is some general information and a video here also:
ONTRACK AVIATION LIMITED
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Got to agree about leading. A poor leader can make it much more difficult for everyone else.
A comprehensive pre-flight briefing is also a vital component. There can be no areas open to misunderstanding as things can go wrong very quickly.
But it is great fun and very satisfying when it all comes together!
RD
A comprehensive pre-flight briefing is also a vital component. There can be no areas open to misunderstanding as things can go wrong very quickly.
But it is great fun and very satisfying when it all comes together!
RD
Rolling 20
There is absolutely no reason a well trained PPL cannot be an outstanding formation pilot. It is the quality of the training and the attitude of the pilot that matters , not the fact the queen signs your pay check
There is absolutely no reason a well trained PPL cannot be an outstanding formation pilot. It is the quality of the training and the attitude of the pilot that matters , not the fact the queen signs your pay check
Take an aerotow in a glider, that's a form of formation flying. You get to fly above and below the slipstream and out to the side (but the tug pilot will get p****d off if you try to overtake him). Normally you are climbing but it is sometimes necessary to descend on tow, without catching up with the tug, by use of airbrakes. You will be surprised how easy it is after a few abortive attempts. You will also be surprised how quickly it all goes pear-shaped on your first attempts before you have got the knack, especially if out of position to the side and you are trying to get back behind the tug.
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Formation flying can even be done in IMC with one aircraft flying the ILS and another flying alongside and behind.
But as stated its not something to mess with unless you really know what you are doing. There have been too many aircraft which have touched end ended up a wreck in a field. Do it under instruction and then with a wide margin and then only with an aircraft/pilot who also knows what he is doing.
Pace
But as stated its not something to mess with unless you really know what you are doing. There have been too many aircraft which have touched end ended up a wreck in a field. Do it under instruction and then with a wide margin and then only with an aircraft/pilot who also knows what he is doing.
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Formation Aeros
Having spent the last two seasons as a lead of a two-ship biplane aerobatic display team - I can honestly say that formation aeros is the most challenging and rewarding flying that I have ever done.
It has been an ambition since I sat in the front of a South African team's Pitts in 1994.
It is within the grasp of most PPLs - IF they have the right attitude, the right "hands" and good instruction.
Get the best instruction available. Mine was with current and former fast-jet pilots - including the odd former Red Arrow. It wasn't at Kemble or Sywell!
It took us (self and wingman - a former Jag Flt Cdr) 40 hours of formtion aeros practice before we felt competent to be assessed for DAs. That is roughly 120 twenty minutes flights.
Last season we managed 7 paid displays but pre-season work-up was around 14 hours (40 seperate flights) before we displayed for the first of the '08 gigs.
The more we practiced, the better we became.
Every flight was "clinically" briefed and debriefed. We learned as much in the debriefs as we did in the air. With the odd exception during practice, I knew exactly where my wingman was and what he expected of me - even if I could not see him. Safety is of course paramount and even the radio calls were rehearsed before we even opened the hangar doors.
We would then walk through the sequence three times using marks on the hangar floor to denote display access wind direction and crowd line.
Lead and wing have very different but complimentary roles.
Best flying I have EVER done
It has been an ambition since I sat in the front of a South African team's Pitts in 1994.
It is within the grasp of most PPLs - IF they have the right attitude, the right "hands" and good instruction.
Get the best instruction available. Mine was with current and former fast-jet pilots - including the odd former Red Arrow. It wasn't at Kemble or Sywell!
It took us (self and wingman - a former Jag Flt Cdr) 40 hours of formtion aeros practice before we felt competent to be assessed for DAs. That is roughly 120 twenty minutes flights.
Last season we managed 7 paid displays but pre-season work-up was around 14 hours (40 seperate flights) before we displayed for the first of the '08 gigs.
The more we practiced, the better we became.
Every flight was "clinically" briefed and debriefed. We learned as much in the debriefs as we did in the air. With the odd exception during practice, I knew exactly where my wingman was and what he expected of me - even if I could not see him. Safety is of course paramount and even the radio calls were rehearsed before we even opened the hangar doors.
We would then walk through the sequence three times using marks on the hangar floor to denote display access wind direction and crowd line.
Lead and wing have very different but complimentary roles.
Best flying I have EVER done
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As an RAF display pilot once said to me..'leave formation flying to those that are paid to do it'..enough said I think!
This opinion is based on the formation training I have done - rewarding and great fun
Last edited by rtl_flyer; 6th Mar 2009 at 10:21.
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I just wondered what the current rules were with regards to formation flying. I know that it is permitted as long as each aircraft commander that is taking part in the formation agrees beforehand to partake in it.
Also, I guess you have to file a flightplan stating that you will be travelling in formation?
Also, when arriving and departing an aerodrome, are aircraft allowed to depart and land in formation (ala the Red Arrows) in controlled airspace or would ATC insist that only 'one at a time' would be allowed into and out of the airfield?
Formal exemptions can be granted if required. For example, Hutton Aviation get one at North Weald for the formation school.
Good stuff, stik, I've become a fan of yours on Facebook.
I got the same inspiration when I saw the Rothman's Team in the '70's and its been great to connect with those guys on Pprune recently.
I flew with a Pitts formation team here back in the '80's.
PS - just got my "new" S-2A flying.
I got the same inspiration when I saw the Rothman's Team in the '70's and its been great to connect with those guys on Pprune recently.
I flew with a Pitts formation team here back in the '80's.
PS - just got my "new" S-2A flying.
