Why bother with the A Check?
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Why bother with the A Check?
Most flying club Cessna 152s are showing their age. When hiring one of these and finding faults when doing the A check one inevitably finds long faces when returning to reception to report. One feels one is seen as a trouble maker.
Some responses I have received (there are from two different flying clubs)
No fire extinquisher: "There's one on order"
Landing light not working: "You won't be flying a night"
Nav light not working: (ditto)
Left door doesn't open from the inside: "Everyone else lives with it"
Pitot heat not working : "You won't need it unless you are flying over 5000 feet"
The irony is that you as a club member gets bollocked for breaking one of a multitude of rules, many of them quite petty.
(Sorry for the rant!)
Some responses I have received (there are from two different flying clubs)
No fire extinquisher: "There's one on order"
Landing light not working: "You won't be flying a night"
Nav light not working: (ditto)
Left door doesn't open from the inside: "Everyone else lives with it"
Pitot heat not working : "You won't need it unless you are flying over 5000 feet"
The irony is that you as a club member gets bollocked for breaking one of a multitude of rules, many of them quite petty.
(Sorry for the rant!)
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But why do you return to reception to report those?
If they're known faults they're documented in the aircraft log book, which you checked before signing for the aircraft, so you knew perfectly well those bits weren't working.
Having said which I did once discover a previously unknown non-functioning beacon:
"Er, the beacon doesn't work."
"Oh. Hmm. We're a bit short of an alternative aircraft to give you just right now. Do the strobes work?"
"Yes."
"So, if you went flying you'd feel that you were just as safe with the strobes on, even if not exactly technically legal?"
"Yes."
"So, how's about you discover the failed beacon at the end of your flight, then, rather than at the beginning? Given that the alternative is to scratch your booking?"
I said yes, of course. A certain amount of common sense does have to be applied sometimes! Like, I also wouldn't be bothered about nav lights and pitot in good visibility day VFR.
If they're known faults they're documented in the aircraft log book, which you checked before signing for the aircraft, so you knew perfectly well those bits weren't working.
Having said which I did once discover a previously unknown non-functioning beacon:
"Er, the beacon doesn't work."
"Oh. Hmm. We're a bit short of an alternative aircraft to give you just right now. Do the strobes work?"
"Yes."
"So, if you went flying you'd feel that you were just as safe with the strobes on, even if not exactly technically legal?"
"Yes."
"So, how's about you discover the failed beacon at the end of your flight, then, rather than at the beginning? Given that the alternative is to scratch your booking?"
I said yes, of course. A certain amount of common sense does have to be applied sometimes! Like, I also wouldn't be bothered about nav lights and pitot in good visibility day VFR.
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If they're known faults they're documented in the aircraft log book
When I did just that I was trounced on as the column marked "Defects" was only to be used if I "bumped into something and caused the aircraft to stop" (???????).
So. no ... there was nothing in the log.
I take the point about nav and landing lights as only the anti-collision light is legally required during the day. But no fire extinquisher?
Yesterday there was a half flat tyre - with all the negative vibes I let it go- made for two interesting landings. This is how we kill ourselves.
I know there is pressure for aircraft to be available - but surely pilots should be thanked profusely for pointing out faults instead of a lot of grief as this means faults are picked up in good time and don't go tech the next time someone checks out the aircraft?
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..... Or set light to the C152, claim you overprimed it because that's what their instuctors taught you to do therefore you shouldn't have to pay the excess 
, wait for club to claim insurance and buy a new plane.
, wait for club to claim insurance and buy a new plane.
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David, if I found a list like that in an aircraft. I'd ground the thing. Write them up in the tech log. It sounds like the maintenance isn't as it should be.
As Gertrude mentions, one minor non-airworthiness issue is one thing. A whole litany including things like doors that don't open and missing safety equipment, simply isn't on.
What is wrong with clubs? It just isn't good enough.
As Gertrude mentions, one minor non-airworthiness issue is one thing. A whole litany including things like doors that don't open and missing safety equipment, simply isn't on.
What is wrong with clubs? It just isn't good enough.
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"So, how's about you discover the failed beacon at the end of your flight, then, rather than at the beginning? Given that the alternative is to scratch your booking?"
This is typical of flying clubs and the reason I left and firstly joined a non capital syndicate - which had better aeroplanes, all with working avionics (airways approved) as well as IFR GPS's. I then eventually left that and bought a share. Shares don't have to be expensive either - although ours is not IFR approved (see Flyer April 09
) , £6000 will buy a decent share in something better than your average club aeroplane!
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David
Asking you to fly without a fire extinguisher?
Go and see Deryck Gunning at ModernAir, Fowlmere.
A bit of a drive for you, I know, but when I lived in the UK, I flew out of there for several years.
His fleet are well maintained, used to be all Pipers.
I am sure other posters can recommend alternative organisations that are equally good.
One thing for sure, don't accept the cr*p you are being given.
Asking you to fly without a fire extinguisher?
Go and see Deryck Gunning at ModernAir, Fowlmere.
A bit of a drive for you, I know, but when I lived in the UK, I flew out of there for several years.
His fleet are well maintained, used to be all Pipers.
I am sure other posters can recommend alternative organisations that are equally good.
One thing for sure, don't accept the cr*p you are being given.
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A second vote for Derek here. Great aircraft and well managed. Not cheap, but far better value than bouncing around in some horrid PoS that you never really relax in.
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I can remember being taken to task for snagging an aircraft in the tech log, as it could then not be used until an engineer had taken a look the next day. That particular school used Post-It Notes instead. One day a man came from the CAA and asked what all these yellows bits of paper were in the tech logs? Ho hum!
I used to fly an Arrow at this club. It needed an awful lot of forward trim to fly straight and level. I mentioned this several times and was told the engineers had checked it and there was nothing wrong.
It was eventually sold and shortly afterwards I moved clubs. The aircraft was sold on again, and by co-incidence an acquaintance of mine bought it and did a lot of work on it inside and out. I knew he had got an Arrow, what I didn't realise at the time was that it was the same one re-registered. This only came to light fairly recently, and when I saw him last I asked about the trim. "Completely knackered" was the reply. Had to be replaced.
I'm glad I don't fly with the old club any more. Especially in today's financial climate.
RD
I used to fly an Arrow at this club. It needed an awful lot of forward trim to fly straight and level. I mentioned this several times and was told the engineers had checked it and there was nothing wrong.
It was eventually sold and shortly afterwards I moved clubs. The aircraft was sold on again, and by co-incidence an acquaintance of mine bought it and did a lot of work on it inside and out. I knew he had got an Arrow, what I didn't realise at the time was that it was the same one re-registered. This only came to light fairly recently, and when I saw him last I asked about the trim. "Completely knackered" was the reply. Had to be replaced.
I'm glad I don't fly with the old club any more. Especially in today's financial climate.
RD
Do you mean the Technical Log? According to Jeremy Pratt's air law book "These should include the time the aircraft took off and landed and details of any defects".
Why bother with the A Check?
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Totally agree with above comments. If your club doesn't approve of you writing defects in the tech log, find another.
It's one thing to say 'the landing light isn't working, it's in the tech log but I'm afraid it will have to wait for the 50hr check and meanwhile, no night flight' but quite another to say 'we know the landing light isn't working but please don't write it in the defect log'. The latter is a dangerous attitude and one day will cause an accident.
Tim
It's one thing to say 'the landing light isn't working, it's in the tech log but I'm afraid it will have to wait for the 50hr check and meanwhile, no night flight' but quite another to say 'we know the landing light isn't working but please don't write it in the defect log'. The latter is a dangerous attitude and one day will cause an accident.
Tim
I think that, to some extent, you do the A-check so that you can make a decision.
In much airspace, flying locally - personally I can live without a transponder quite happily - although I might not accept the aircraft with the missing transponder for a long trip, and certainly not if I thought there was a significant risk of going IMC.
Landing lights or nav lights - can't say it worries me massively for a 2 hour flight starting at midday. For a night flight - I'd not accept the aircraft.
No fire extinguisher in an enclosed aircraft. Well, I might be prepared to taxi it to maintenance. Actually no, they can bring the extinguisher over.
I've known a very experienced military pilot refuse to accept a 2-seat aircraft because the secondary altimeter was U/S in the rear cockpit. It was for a spinning test flight and the rear cockpit occupant was part of the crew - fair enough. I'm sure he'd have taken it for a couple of hundred miles navex.
The A-check is there to inform you the Captain, and allow you to decide whether to accept the aircraft - as well as what is or isn't working so that you can operate the aircraft accordingly.
On which subject - you don't need to accept the aircraft unless you judge it's safe and fit for purpose. So, if it isn't, don't. If more pilots would do that, clubs would maintain the aircraft better. (Or, as has already been said, buy a share and join in the task of looking after the aeroplane as you'd wish - most syndicate aeroplanes are much better looked after than most rental aeroplanes.
G
In much airspace, flying locally - personally I can live without a transponder quite happily - although I might not accept the aircraft with the missing transponder for a long trip, and certainly not if I thought there was a significant risk of going IMC.
Landing lights or nav lights - can't say it worries me massively for a 2 hour flight starting at midday. For a night flight - I'd not accept the aircraft.
No fire extinguisher in an enclosed aircraft. Well, I might be prepared to taxi it to maintenance. Actually no, they can bring the extinguisher over.
I've known a very experienced military pilot refuse to accept a 2-seat aircraft because the secondary altimeter was U/S in the rear cockpit. It was for a spinning test flight and the rear cockpit occupant was part of the crew - fair enough. I'm sure he'd have taken it for a couple of hundred miles navex.
The A-check is there to inform you the Captain, and allow you to decide whether to accept the aircraft - as well as what is or isn't working so that you can operate the aircraft accordingly.
On which subject - you don't need to accept the aircraft unless you judge it's safe and fit for purpose. So, if it isn't, don't. If more pilots would do that, clubs would maintain the aircraft better. (Or, as has already been said, buy a share and join in the task of looking after the aeroplane as you'd wish - most syndicate aeroplanes are much better looked after than most rental aeroplanes.
G
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That particular school used Post-It Notes instead
By the way, I am not seriously asking to do away with the A check - its just that one is taught to take it very seriously and then in the next breath told the opposite! Obviously one does have to use one's judgement and not follow it blindly but opinions differ. At another club a Cessna continually used fuel from one wing only until it was exhausted. No one bothered much about it except for one instructor. An examiner agreed with him and had it looked at.
Last edited by DavidHoul52; 1st Mar 2009 at 22:01.
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Post-it notes on a tech log...............Oh for crying out loud.
It is not acceptable. The systems must be robust enough to inform people about any defects that an aircraft is carrying.
Defects can be deferred until it is sensible to repair them. Operating restrictions might need to be put in place, but that isn't too hard.
You are PIC and it is well within your right to ground any aircraft you see fit to do so. If you get a row over it, then stand your ground. You are in the right. Whilst I have had many people ground things for no reason, you have to manage that and be able to defer the defect as needed.
A bit of commonsense is required, for example grounding an aircraft because an instrument light has gone out is a pain, but all that needs to happen is that the defect is deferred until it can be fixed, with a restriction such as "no night flying."
I once got into an aircraft that was loaded and fuelled and found a note on the throttle quadrant from the fleet manager.
"Took 5 attempts to lower gear on first sector, 3 attempts on the second sector.
Keep the show on the road and the engineers will look at it tomorrow."
Strangely enough, the first action was to unload the aircraft and then ring up the fleet manager and inform him that he was an f'in idiot if he thought we'd be taking that aircraft anywhere.
My 3rd action was to get out of that company as soon as possible.
Techlogs are there for a reason, use them properly. End of.
It is not acceptable. The systems must be robust enough to inform people about any defects that an aircraft is carrying.
Defects can be deferred until it is sensible to repair them. Operating restrictions might need to be put in place, but that isn't too hard.
You are PIC and it is well within your right to ground any aircraft you see fit to do so. If you get a row over it, then stand your ground. You are in the right. Whilst I have had many people ground things for no reason, you have to manage that and be able to defer the defect as needed.
A bit of commonsense is required, for example grounding an aircraft because an instrument light has gone out is a pain, but all that needs to happen is that the defect is deferred until it can be fixed, with a restriction such as "no night flying."
I once got into an aircraft that was loaded and fuelled and found a note on the throttle quadrant from the fleet manager.
"Took 5 attempts to lower gear on first sector, 3 attempts on the second sector.
Keep the show on the road and the engineers will look at it tomorrow."
Strangely enough, the first action was to unload the aircraft and then ring up the fleet manager and inform him that he was an f'in idiot if he thought we'd be taking that aircraft anywhere.
My 3rd action was to get out of that company as soon as possible.
Techlogs are there for a reason, use them properly. End of.
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Most flying club Cessna 152s are showing their age. When hiring one of these and finding faults when doing the A check one inevitably finds long faces when returning to reception to report. One feels one is seen as a trouble maker.
Some responses I have received (there are from two different flying clubs)
No fire extinquisher: "There's one on order"
Landing light not working: "You won't be flying a night"
Nav light not working: (ditto)
Left door doesn't open from the inside: "Everyone else lives with it"
Pitot heat not working : "You won't need it unless you are flying over 5000 feet"
The irony is that you as a club member gets bollocked for breaking one of a multitude of rules, many of them quite petty.
(Sorry for the rant!)
Some responses I have received (there are from two different flying clubs)
No fire extinquisher: "There's one on order"
Landing light not working: "You won't be flying a night"
Nav light not working: (ditto)
Left door doesn't open from the inside: "Everyone else lives with it"
Pitot heat not working : "You won't need it unless you are flying over 5000 feet"
The irony is that you as a club member gets bollocked for breaking one of a multitude of rules, many of them quite petty.
(Sorry for the rant!)
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There's only one answer, fly it like you stole it!
Return the smoking wreckage with no fuel, oil, battery still on, lights on (if they work) and don't bother to sign the tech log. Just get back in your car and drive away.
Return the smoking wreckage with no fuel, oil, battery still on, lights on (if they work) and don't bother to sign the tech log. Just get back in your car and drive away.