Taking children in your own plane - divorced parents
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Obviously thats the plan.
I don't worry about my flying skills. I ve flown all over Europe and safely, including my share of emergencies.
In due course I will first take them up with a P2 on short trips, then a longer one (perhaps to their granddad in France), then just with me when I know they re happy flying and when I know their mother has relaxed.
On a good day I see no objections whatsoever to let them handle the controls in level flight for a bit if they want to try.
I don't worry about my flying skills. I ve flown all over Europe and safely, including my share of emergencies.
In due course I will first take them up with a P2 on short trips, then a longer one (perhaps to their granddad in France), then just with me when I know they re happy flying and when I know their mother has relaxed.
On a good day I see no objections whatsoever to let them handle the controls in level flight for a bit if they want to try.
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Different pilots will be able to use different "levers".
I banged about various stuff, like having both CAA and FAA Class 1 medicals and having had more ECGs than hot dinners. She thought that only people dying with a heart attack have an ECG...
The difficulty with a P2 pilot is that the "child" may never get a chance to learn to fly, because very few pilots are willing to sit in the back! Even enroute. And in many planes one cannot transfer front-back. Also many pilots are much too large to be able to transfer. I found a couple, over several years. Bizzarely, the ex was OK with the P2 sitting in the back.
I banged about various stuff, like having both CAA and FAA Class 1 medicals and having had more ECGs than hot dinners. She thought that only people dying with a heart attack have an ECG...
The difficulty with a P2 pilot is that the "child" may never get a chance to learn to fly, because very few pilots are willing to sit in the back! Even enroute. And in many planes one cannot transfer front-back. Also many pilots are much too large to be able to transfer. I found a couple, over several years. Bizzarely, the ex was OK with the P2 sitting in the back.
Take the Kids Flying Before the Divorce
I had my older boy up several times from the age of two and a bit. He was an enthusiastic participant, but once got worried on an overwater approach -- also could lose breakfast on crosswind landings during the flare. Child seats are good for protecting the a/c interior if not the sprog exterior
Ex was quite objectionable for many years -- as they tend to be
But never made fuss about taking kids flying -- major obstacle was lack of funds
Ex was quite objectionable for many years -- as they tend to be
But never made fuss about taking kids flying -- major obstacle was lack of funds
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The difficulty with a P2 pilot is that the "child" may never get a chance to learn to fly, because very few pilots are willing to sit in the back! Even enroute. And in many planes one cannot transfer front-back. Also many pilots are much too large to be able to transfer. I found a couple, over several years. Bizzarely, the ex was OK with the P2 sitting in the back.
Many younger penniless pilots are happy to go along in the back with the promise of a leg.
Older more experienced pilots dont need to be up front. I have often gone along as P2 with an inexperienced pilot and have been quite happy to sit in the back and let them show off their skills to Kids/Girlfriends/friends up front.
Pay the pilot and you can tell him to sit on the tail
10540 yes in many light aircraft a pilot in the back would not be able to get to the front and could only give verbal advice.
Pace
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Suppose it depends who you put in the back with them and what sort of leg.
The leg with two hold ups en route springs to mind. But heck forget the flying they can go up front especially cruising at 5280 feet is that supposed to be statute or nautical?
Pace
The leg with two hold ups en route springs to mind. But heck forget the flying they can go up front especially cruising at 5280 feet
is that supposed to be statute or nautical?Pace
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Exosaurus
The Exosaurus wants revenge.
Relating the story of somebody I know pretty well.....
How better than to spend time, effort and money convincing a Judge that the partner who jilted him shouldn't share something exciting with the kids that her new partner does and the exosaurus didn't?
Hypocricy rules big time because it is of course OK for the Exosaurus to put the kids on the back of a powerful motorbike or in the back of an old open topped banger with no seat belts, tear around on motorbikes themselves without safety kit, drive cars around the field, share trampolines with others ( big risk there!), 2 in the front passenger seat of Exosaurus' sports car with one belt around them...thats all OK. Flying is dangerous though...............
As I've said - its no bad thing for a kid to wait. A pity though when the opportunity is there now.
Jack
Relating the story of somebody I know pretty well.....
How better than to spend time, effort and money convincing a Judge that the partner who jilted him shouldn't share something exciting with the kids that her new partner does and the exosaurus didn't?
Hypocricy rules big time because it is of course OK for the Exosaurus to put the kids on the back of a powerful motorbike or in the back of an old open topped banger with no seat belts, tear around on motorbikes themselves without safety kit, drive cars around the field, share trampolines with others ( big risk there!), 2 in the front passenger seat of Exosaurus' sports car with one belt around them...thats all OK. Flying is dangerous though...............
As I've said - its no bad thing for a kid to wait. A pity though when the opportunity is there now.
Jack
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After reading this thread, I can't help wondering: is it that, somehow, divorce rates among pilots are higher than for other groups of professionals - or amateurs? Or maybe it's just my impression?
Deeday
Deeday
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I've noticed lots of talking about divorce on other sites relating to other professions ...
Here's a theory: There's lots of talk about divorce on web sites because divorced people have more time to sit in front of a computer.
(FTAOD: the above is a theory. I have absolutely nothing that could be described as scientific evidence for it.)
Here's a theory: There's lots of talk about divorce on web sites because divorced people have more time to sit in front of a computer.
(FTAOD: the above is a theory. I have absolutely nothing that could be described as scientific evidence for it.)
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I wonder if there are many (any?) divorced female pilots who suffer the same problem? It sounds more like a control issue than a genuine fear of aviating?
Alternatlively, are there things that the mother would like to have the children do, but the father vetos?
I wonder how the mother would feel if it was suggested the children are flown by a female pilot, not necessarily someone emotionally involved in any way with the father. Wimmen sometimes trust other wimmen more than men....?
Alternatlively, are there things that the mother would like to have the children do, but the father vetos?
I wonder how the mother would feel if it was suggested the children are flown by a female pilot, not necessarily someone emotionally involved in any way with the father. Wimmen sometimes trust other wimmen more than men....?
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I am still currently married and have had this issue. My kids are all teens now and only one is interested in flying. But when younger all invariably came for rides from time to time.
The only stipulation was that I was not allowed to take all 3 up at the same time. "I want to have something to live for if you crash" was the reason.
I thought and said, "fair enough, the accident rate on the road to the airport is indeed pretty bad..."
In any event I preferred taking them up one at a time, I could give them my undivided attention. By 12 years old my kids could all hold an altitude and heading to within +/- 50 ft and 5 deg.
I remember two flights in particular, took my two oldest up in the Cherokee I had at the time, independently. I was testing routes for an upcoming Young Eagles event. This was back in 2001. Oldest was 11, second oldest 9. I climbed out to 2000 ft, gave them the controls (sitting on cushions), gave them a heading and told them to keep 2000 ft. Each heading I gave them, they rolled out to within 5 deg. Maintained altitude flawlessly. Flew me home right onto downwind.
To them it was just another big flight sim game
We had great fun! Too bad so many ex's are control freak b!tches!
Beech
The only stipulation was that I was not allowed to take all 3 up at the same time. "I want to have something to live for if you crash" was the reason.
I thought and said, "fair enough, the accident rate on the road to the airport is indeed pretty bad..."
In any event I preferred taking them up one at a time, I could give them my undivided attention. By 12 years old my kids could all hold an altitude and heading to within +/- 50 ft and 5 deg.
I remember two flights in particular, took my two oldest up in the Cherokee I had at the time, independently. I was testing routes for an upcoming Young Eagles event. This was back in 2001. Oldest was 11, second oldest 9. I climbed out to 2000 ft, gave them the controls (sitting on cushions), gave them a heading and told them to keep 2000 ft. Each heading I gave them, they rolled out to within 5 deg. Maintained altitude flawlessly. Flew me home right onto downwind.
To them it was just another big flight sim game
We had great fun! Too bad so many ex's are control freak b!tches!
Beech
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Fernytickles
I think it s a control issue.
It's far easier for the "controlling parent" to prevent children from seeing the other parent than it is for the Alimony paying parent to have this decision enforceably corrected.
Assuming the flying parent is the one who pays alimony, he therefore tends to be the looser.
I think it s a control issue.
It's far easier for the "controlling parent" to prevent children from seeing the other parent than it is for the Alimony paying parent to have this decision enforceably corrected.
Assuming the flying parent is the one who pays alimony, he therefore tends to be the looser.
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Sounds to me that it's just a case of spite in most cases, which is sad, but very human. It's so sad when the kids become a stick with which to beat each other; it can't be good for them either 
Real and percieved risk is there whether married or divorced. I remember when we had the first of our five kids; we said we'd not go for any long trips together even in a car, for fear of being killed and leaving her an orphan! That didn't last very long, and as time has gone on, and more kids came along, our perception of risk has changed with it. I've taken all my kids flying and my wife did say she felt uneasy at first ... now she'd be quite happy (though sadly I have nothing to take them up in anyway
).
It always makes me laugh on the odd occasion that I have to take my youngest two to school in the morning. You can tell the new parents by their reaction to the odd knock in the play ground. Little Johnny bangs his knee and cries ... the experienced parents shrug and carry on chatting, the new ones are mortified and run over as if somebody has taken a knife to their precious!
SS
Real and percieved risk is there whether married or divorced. I remember when we had the first of our five kids; we said we'd not go for any long trips together even in a car, for fear of being killed and leaving her an orphan! That didn't last very long, and as time has gone on, and more kids came along, our perception of risk has changed with it. I've taken all my kids flying and my wife did say she felt uneasy at first ... now she'd be quite happy (though sadly I have nothing to take them up in anyway
).It always makes me laugh on the odd occasion that I have to take my youngest two to school in the morning. You can tell the new parents by their reaction to the odd knock in the play ground. Little Johnny bangs his knee and cries ... the experienced parents shrug and carry on chatting, the new ones are mortified and run over as if somebody has taken a knife to their precious!
SS
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Yeah, observing other parents is always fun
As to the Q, I think it is a spite / control issue than a genuine fear of an accident. It doesn't work the other way round ie. the father does not need to be consulted on anything, short of (IIRC) the mother taking the kids out of the UK for a holiday. But the father's activities are nearly always strictly monitored and controlled.
As I said earlier, the legal reality is different. He has as much freedom as the mother when it comes to activities. The practical difference is that a divorced woman with custody holds nearly all the cards, so he has to "watch it" or else...
But she doesn't hold ALL the cards. While legally there is no connection between paying child maintenance and getting contact, in practice there is: child maintenance is a de facto purchase of contact in that if you simply stopped paying (without having lost your job, etc) she would soon do something about it... and this is why she doesn't quite hold all the cards. If you have the balls, and it does take a lot of balls, more than most fathers have, you can just call her bluff and take the kids for a flight; the chances are that you will win. But this is a nuclear game, which sometimes results in a total loss of contact, and is not worth trying just for something like taking the kids for a flight.
I wouldn't have thought so with men because men tend to spend most of their life at work and they get plenty of internet access there. A man's life, in terms of his actual duties, doesn't change that much as a result of divorce - except that he gets more time and freedom in return for having less money The extra time/freedom can be productively spent. Of course you can hit the dating sites
Myself, I started learning to fly only after my divorce; had I tried it during the marriage it would have been blocked unless similar money was spent on my then wife. She was heavily into horses... but you have to be pretty heavily into horses to spend as much as flying 100+ hours/year
As to the Q, I think it is a spite / control issue than a genuine fear of an accident. It doesn't work the other way round ie. the father does not need to be consulted on anything, short of (IIRC) the mother taking the kids out of the UK for a holiday. But the father's activities are nearly always strictly monitored and controlled.
As I said earlier, the legal reality is different. He has as much freedom as the mother when it comes to activities. The practical difference is that a divorced woman with custody holds nearly all the cards, so he has to "watch it" or else...
But she doesn't hold ALL the cards. While legally there is no connection between paying child maintenance and getting contact, in practice there is: child maintenance is a de facto purchase of contact in that if you simply stopped paying (without having lost your job, etc) she would soon do something about it... and this is why she doesn't quite hold all the cards. If you have the balls, and it does take a lot of balls, more than most fathers have, you can just call her bluff and take the kids for a flight; the chances are that you will win. But this is a nuclear game, which sometimes results in a total loss of contact, and is not worth trying just for something like taking the kids for a flight.
There's lots of talk about divorce on web sites because divorced people have more time to sit in front of a computer.
The extra time/freedom can be productively spent. Of course you can hit the dating sites Myself, I started learning to fly only after my divorce; had I tried it during the marriage it would have been blocked unless similar money was spent on my then wife. She was heavily into horses... but you have to be pretty heavily into horses to spend as much as flying 100+ hours/year
Last edited by IO540; 25th Jan 2009 at 08:38.
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I'd like to offer my services as a safety pilot to all you divorced parents out there
I'm not divoirced and don't have any intention of being, but don't think I'll bother having any kids after reading this post. Mind you I haven't told the wife this bombshell yet so I could well be divorced after I do !
I'm not divoirced and don't have any intention of being, but don't think I'll bother having any kids after reading this post. Mind you I haven't told the wife this bombshell yet so I could well be divorced after I do !
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What went wrong?
I haven't visited PPRUNE for a while but have to say that this is a very frightening and depressing thread.
Why is there so much hate between ex-wives and ex-husbands? Where did it all go wrong?
Ok, maybe this is a really stupid question but I really don't understand...
In Holland, I was married for the greater part of my adult life... and very happy. I cannot contemplate the problems you are discussing, how can someone whom you have known and loved so well become someone who despises you so much?
Three years ago my 35 year old husband died in a tragic accident. Now, even though I try to live a very full life; I am still alone. Reading threads like this put me off contemplating a new relationship... so, I ask again, what was your mistake?!
Why is there so much hate between ex-wives and ex-husbands? Where did it all go wrong?
Ok, maybe this is a really stupid question but I really don't understand...
In Holland, I was married for the greater part of my adult life... and very happy. I cannot contemplate the problems you are discussing, how can someone whom you have known and loved so well become someone who despises you so much?
Three years ago my 35 year old husband died in a tragic accident. Now, even though I try to live a very full life; I am still alone. Reading threads like this put me off contemplating a new relationship... so, I ask again, what was your mistake?!
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Do not be put off finding someone new just be thankful that your husband brought so much into your life while he was with you.
Every partner you have hopefully brings something positive to you even if they are only with you for a few months.
You were lucky in having a good long relationship so be greatful for that. Expect nothing and you may be surprised
I was with my ex since she was 19 and for over 20 years. I had 2 great kids with her but things went wrong. Things change what people want changes and I went into a divorce which cost me dearly all directed and lead by the so called lawyers.
Result massive debts which after six years have now gone.
She never found what she wanted and not a week goes by without a call.
I am her friend now but thats all.
On the upside plenty of things and experiences I would not have done if married and plenty of people who have come into my life and enriched it in between.
A lot of the blame goes to the legal system which doesnt protect the people it should do yet punishes the ones it shouldnt do hence the bitterness
Pace
Every partner you have hopefully brings something positive to you even if they are only with you for a few months.
You were lucky in having a good long relationship so be greatful for that. Expect nothing and you may be surprised
I was with my ex since she was 19 and for over 20 years. I had 2 great kids with her but things went wrong. Things change what people want changes and I went into a divorce which cost me dearly all directed and lead by the so called lawyers.
Result massive debts which after six years have now gone.
She never found what she wanted and not a week goes by without a call.
I am her friend now but thats all.
On the upside plenty of things and experiences I would not have done if married and plenty of people who have come into my life and enriched it in between.
A lot of the blame goes to the legal system which doesnt protect the people it should do yet punishes the ones it shouldnt do hence the bitterness
Pace
