do you use gps
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 768
Likes: 0
From: UK
do you use gps
Are most people now own or even use gps when flying or do you really rely on eyeballs mainly for long trips around the U.K.
Also do you know if for taking a cpl if you are allowed use a gps for the skills test ?
Cheers
Also do you know if for taking a cpl if you are allowed use a gps for the skills test ?
Cheers
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,631
Likes: 0
From: UK
The work of the devil, I say.
You dont want to get involved with it, map, pencil, and eyeball is all you need. If it was good enough for my Dad in the RAF to fly all round Europe, it is good enough for me. God gave you eyes for a reason.
Terribly unreliable as well what with batteries running out, GPS signal being switched off and the MOD jamming trials all round the country.
No, you dont wanted to get involved my boy - stick to tried and tested means.
You dont want to get involved with it, map, pencil, and eyeball is all you need. If it was good enough for my Dad in the RAF to fly all round Europe, it is good enough for me. God gave you eyes for a reason.
Terribly unreliable as well what with batteries running out, GPS signal being switched off and the MOD jamming trials all round the country.
No, you dont wanted to get involved my boy - stick to tried and tested means.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
From: New Zealand
Fuji,
how do you know god didn't give us GPS for a reason to?
GPS is fantastic for private flying as a supplement, but you would be a darn right idiot to use it as a sole means navigation aid.
But I say again, it is one of the best tools at hand, and it gives you so much more useful information than you could ever retrieve with the manual flight comuters.
how do you know god didn't give us GPS for a reason to?
GPS is fantastic for private flying as a supplement, but you would be a darn right idiot to use it as a sole means navigation aid.
But I say again, it is one of the best tools at hand, and it gives you so much more useful information than you could ever retrieve with the manual flight comuters.
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 15,115
Likes: 1,091
From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Maps, pencils?
Work of the devil.
I use my memory and set the QNH on a clay tablet.
Perfectly good enough to keep me 0.01 nm outside ChilliMonster's airspace.
Work of the devil.
I use my memory and set the QNH on a clay tablet.
Perfectly good enough to keep me 0.01 nm outside ChilliMonster's airspace.
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
From: London
GPS a nice to have but I can't afford one right now and really not necessary for VFR.
Mind you I never go anywhere in my car without SatNav but then flight nav is so much easier.
I sometimes leave my basic Garmin walker type GPS on when flying - the track imports nicely into memory map.
Mind you I never go anywhere in my car without SatNav but then flight nav is so much easier.
I sometimes leave my basic Garmin walker type GPS on when flying - the track imports nicely into memory map.
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
From: EuroGA.org
The work of the devil, I say.
You dont want to get involved with it, map, pencil, and eyeball is all you need. If it was good enough for my Dad in the RAF to fly all round Europe, it is good enough for me. God gave you eyes for a reason.
Terribly unreliable as well what with batteries running out, GPS signal being switched off and the MOD jamming trials all round the country.
You dont want to get involved with it, map, pencil, and eyeball is all you need. If it was good enough for my Dad in the RAF to fly all round Europe, it is good enough for me. God gave you eyes for a reason.
Terribly unreliable as well what with batteries running out, GPS signal being switched off and the MOD jamming trials all round the country.
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,598
Likes: 0
From: Amsterdam
I sometimes leave my basic Garmin walker type GPS on when flying - the track imports nicely into memory map.
To be used as a backup for other types of navigation of course.
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
From: East Sussex
Fly with both, map and GPS....hairy chest then and option, depends what you are flying around in, open cockpit vintage machine, or cocooned retractable crusier with leather seats...oh and an autopilot! But you must carry a map to be legal!
Will.
Will.
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 6,209
Likes: 2
From: north of barlu
In the centre of my radio stack is a GPS and in the aircraft flight manual it states that it is approved for IFR area navigation and N.P. IFR aproaches.............................Why would I not use it?
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
From: East Sussex
Referance..! Being legal for a GA private flight you must carry an up to date Aviation map on board the aircraft, the captain of the aircraft should ensure that one is present or the hairy chested men will get you 
... we wre drifting here, what was the origional question 
?
Will.
... we wre drifting here, what was the origional question ?Will.
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 15,115
Likes: 1,091
From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Couldn't agree more. A real pilot, with a hairy chest, is prepared to die if he gets lost. It's a matter of honour.
As for flying in cloud, I just hold my breath till I'm out of it again.
It's that rough chart you scribble on the back of a fag packet that worries me mate
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
From: EuroGA.org
Being legal for a GA private flight you must carry an up to date Aviation map on board the aircraft
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
From: East Sussex
The other navigation data being...? A map maybe, ok for a commercial flight they use charts but for mere mortals.., be interested to see were you got the data from though, I personally thought that carrying a map on board was a legal requirement in a "G" reg aircraft(private flight), please correct me if things have changed and you can now fly with a GPS only. I guess this relates to more IFR operated aircraft on a Cof A.
Cheers Will.
Cheers Will.
Upto The Buffers
Joined: Apr 2006
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 1,112
Likes: 0
From: Leeds/Bradford
I think the point is that is doesn't say "map", is just says "sufficient nav data" which most have interpreted as "map". Since most aviation law seems to be acquired from clubhouse gossip instead of reading the actual rules this kind of thing becomes common belief, just like the IMC rating 500/600ft approach minima (which is bolleaux).
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,275
Likes: 21
From: London
There was a time when maps were either wrong on not available. In those days we used to use Ground Positioning System (GPS) for navigation.
There days, I must admit, my GPS navigation skills are not what they used to be so I confess to using a map and when available a radio beacon....
There days, I must admit, my GPS navigation skills are not what they used to be so I confess to using a map and when available a radio beacon....
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 758
Likes: 0
From: Here and there. Here at the moment but soon I'll be there.
FAA standpoint from FAA Website
What is the FAA policy for carrying current charts?
The term "charts" is not found in the FAA's Part 91 regulations (other than for large and turbine-powered multiengine airplanes in 91.503[a]). The specific FAA regulation, FAR 91.103 "Preflight Actions," states that each pilot in command shall, before beginning a flight, become familiar with all available information concerning that flight. What is not specifically addressed in the regulation is a requirement for charts. You should always carry a current chart for safety's sake. An expired chart will not show new frequencies or newly constructed obstructions, some of which could be tall enough to be a hazard along your route of flight.
The only FAA/FAR requirements that pertain to charts are:
The FAA has rendered interpretations that have stated the foregoing. The subject of current charts was thoroughly covered in an article in the FAA's July/August 1997 issue of FAA Aviation News. That article was cleared through the FAA's Chief Counsel's office. In that article the FAA stated the following:
1. "You can carry old charts in your aircraft." "It is not FAA policy to violate anyone for having outdated charts in the aircraft."
2. "Not all pilots are required to carry a chart." "91.503..requires the pilot in command of large and multiengine airplanes to have charts." "Other operating sections of the FAR such as Part 121 and Part 135 operations have similar requirements."
3. ..."since some pilots thought they could be violated for having outdated or no charts on board during a flight, we need to clarify an important issue. As we have said, it is NOT FAA policy to initiate enforcement action against a pilot for having an old chart on board or no chart on board." That's because there is no regulation on the issue.
4. ..."the issue of current chart data bases in handheld GPS receivers is a non-issue because the units are neither approved by the FAA or required for flight, nor do panel-mounted VFR-only GPS receivers have to have a current data base because, like handheld GPS receivers, the pilot is responsible for pilotage under VFR.
5. "If a pilot is involved in an enforcement investigation and there is evidence that the use of an out-of-date chart, no chart, or an out-of-date database contributed to the condition that brought on the enforcement investigation, then that information could be used in any enforcement action that might be taken."
If you, as an FAA Safety Inspector, Designated Pilot Examiner, Flight Instructor, or other aviation professional are telling pilots something other than the foregoing then you are incorrect.
What is the FAA policy for carrying current charts?
The term "charts" is not found in the FAA's Part 91 regulations (other than for large and turbine-powered multiengine airplanes in 91.503[a]). The specific FAA regulation, FAR 91.103 "Preflight Actions," states that each pilot in command shall, before beginning a flight, become familiar with all available information concerning that flight. What is not specifically addressed in the regulation is a requirement for charts. You should always carry a current chart for safety's sake. An expired chart will not show new frequencies or newly constructed obstructions, some of which could be tall enough to be a hazard along your route of flight.
The only FAA/FAR requirements that pertain to charts are:
- Title 14 CFR section 91.503[a] (Large and Turbojet powered aircraft)
- Title 14 CFR section 135.83 (Air Carriers-Little Airplane)
- Title 14 CFR section 121.549 (Air Carrier-Big Airplanes)
The FAA has rendered interpretations that have stated the foregoing. The subject of current charts was thoroughly covered in an article in the FAA's July/August 1997 issue of FAA Aviation News. That article was cleared through the FAA's Chief Counsel's office. In that article the FAA stated the following:
1. "You can carry old charts in your aircraft." "It is not FAA policy to violate anyone for having outdated charts in the aircraft."
2. "Not all pilots are required to carry a chart." "91.503..requires the pilot in command of large and multiengine airplanes to have charts." "Other operating sections of the FAR such as Part 121 and Part 135 operations have similar requirements."
3. ..."since some pilots thought they could be violated for having outdated or no charts on board during a flight, we need to clarify an important issue. As we have said, it is NOT FAA policy to initiate enforcement action against a pilot for having an old chart on board or no chart on board." That's because there is no regulation on the issue.
4. ..."the issue of current chart data bases in handheld GPS receivers is a non-issue because the units are neither approved by the FAA or required for flight, nor do panel-mounted VFR-only GPS receivers have to have a current data base because, like handheld GPS receivers, the pilot is responsible for pilotage under VFR.
5. "If a pilot is involved in an enforcement investigation and there is evidence that the use of an out-of-date chart, no chart, or an out-of-date database contributed to the condition that brought on the enforcement investigation, then that information could be used in any enforcement action that might be taken."
If you, as an FAA Safety Inspector, Designated Pilot Examiner, Flight Instructor, or other aviation professional are telling pilots something other than the foregoing then you are incorrect.