Runway closures
Guest
Posts: n/a
Runway closures
Looks like we might be losing another runway in west central Scotland. See p. 55
Glasgow Prestwick Airport
It's a proposal to close Prestwick's 03/21; follows hard on the heels of BAA closing 09/27 at Glasgow.
Beancounters
Glasgow Prestwick Airport
It's a proposal to close Prestwick's 03/21; follows hard on the heels of BAA closing 09/27 at Glasgow.
Beancounters
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 207
Likes: 0
From: scotland
Page 55 of the plan is Page No 63 of the pdf.
Ive only been to Prestwick a few times, is this closure going to affect the local GA much?
I do remember being in a hold for some time waiting for a 747 and then by the time I`d waited for the wake to dissipate the next one was up my chuff and I was told to hurry along, land and exit the active asap..
I imagine the closure will mean more of this and be rather inconvenient for you not to mention costly.
Ive only been to Prestwick a few times, is this closure going to affect the local GA much?
I do remember being in a hold for some time waiting for a 747 and then by the time I`d waited for the wake to dissipate the next one was up my chuff and I was told to hurry along, land and exit the active asap..
I imagine the closure will mean more of this and be rather inconvenient for you not to mention costly.
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 278
Likes: 0
From: uk
Its to accomodate the parking of aircraft.
It's a common trait throughout the UK, you may not like it, but the revenue earned from the parking fees vastly outweighs any income which could possibly recieved from smaller a/c landing upon it.
To put it in very basic terms, to keep a runway open and licensed by the CAA costs many £1000s each year, if the income from landing fees on that runway doesn't exceed the running costs it's a no brainer
As I've often said with anyone who visits these forums, if you don't like it, try running it yourself on a commercial basis if you dare, (and I doubt that you'd have the balls to do so or could afford it), and then you'll find out what the real world is all about.
It's a common trait throughout the UK, you may not like it, but the revenue earned from the parking fees vastly outweighs any income which could possibly recieved from smaller a/c landing upon it.
To put it in very basic terms, to keep a runway open and licensed by the CAA costs many £1000s each year, if the income from landing fees on that runway doesn't exceed the running costs it's a no brainer
As I've often said with anyone who visits these forums, if you don't like it, try running it yourself on a commercial basis if you dare, (and I doubt that you'd have the balls to do so or could afford it), and then you'll find out what the real world is all about.
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 3,130
Likes: 17
From: U.K.
No brainer huh? Why not just ban all GA aircraft and rely totally on the airlines.
What exactly are you doing on the GA section of this website? We should just accept runway closures and not whinge and moan or try to stop them?
If you say so..............
What exactly are you doing on the GA section of this website? We should just accept runway closures and not whinge and moan or try to stop them?
If you say so..............
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
From: Prestwick
It's not only GA that would be affected by the closure of 21/03. With the main runway 31/13 being regularly affected by crosswinds the loss of the secondary runway could result in diversions or cancellations of Ryanair scheduled services - indeed it might result in Ryanair reconsidering their whole operation. Incidentally with a gale blowing straight down 21 I have seen it used by no less than 747 freighters and a C-5 Galaxy.
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 276
Likes: 3
From: N Ireland
I can understand the bean counter mentality in closing runways but what I find strange is that as why in the case of our local airport when they closed 02/20 which is now used as a taxiway they don't allow it to be used at the pilots discretion. Its not exactly LHR.
Not only does it limit training but it results in having to go elsewhere to familarise students to different runway perspectives.
I doubt if they would refuse if the wind warranted it in an emergency but it is an annoyance.
Not only does it limit training but it results in having to go elsewhere to familarise students to different runway perspectives.
I doubt if they would refuse if the wind warranted it in an emergency but it is an annoyance.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 343
Likes: 0
From: On a roll...
Where exactly is our "safety authority" when these decisions are taken?
How many regional airports are going to be left with "crosswind" runways in 10 years time??
Indeed, if commercial considerations are to take absolute precedence, then you might as well just ban GA straight off.
ILS apps more & more difficult & expensive to do, fewer runways near anything conurbation of interest to land on & all pointing in just one direction....then a whopping bill to park on said tarmac.
The sound of silence from Gatwick/Kingsway is deafening.....
How many regional airports are going to be left with "crosswind" runways in 10 years time??
Indeed, if commercial considerations are to take absolute precedence, then you might as well just ban GA straight off.
ILS apps more & more difficult & expensive to do, fewer runways near anything conurbation of interest to land on & all pointing in just one direction....then a whopping bill to park on said tarmac.
The sound of silence from Gatwick/Kingsway is deafening.....
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 613
Likes: 0
From: england
'snot a CAA problem. If a business chooses to do something and stays within the rules then the CAA cannot shove their nose in. I would guess that Prestwick management have done a survey of runway utilisation and figured that the loss of business through excessive crosswinds is relatively small compared with the upkeep of the runway. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of the proposed closure, but I do understand why.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 191
Likes: 0
From: next door to the pub
Check Prestwick's Notams, from April 20th 03/21 is closed. Would love to explain but can't risk it and anyway nobody would believe me!!!
Prestwick - Scotland's premier comedy airport
Prestwick - Scotland's premier comedy airport
Last edited by Fly Through; 13th April 2009 at 12:39. Reason: Can't type
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
From: uk
Don't tell me that 03/21 is closing due to lack of fire cover as the firemen will be sent to the other end of the airfield to double hat as baggage handlers or litter wardens or summat? Pure Dead Brilliant. Not
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 649
Likes: 0
From: .
A shame that, I have used 21 a couple of times when I've been to Prestwick due to crosswind, in fact when I was there on Saturday practically everyone (no hyperbole) was using 21 because the wind favoured it.
Not brilliant at all, pure, dead or otherwise. What prat thought that slogan up? Obviously some crap attempt at humouring American visitors with Weegie humour
Smithy
Not brilliant at all, pure, dead or otherwise. What prat thought that slogan up? Obviously some crap attempt at humouring American visitors with Weegie humour
Smithy
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 359
Likes: 0
From: Cloud Nine
What's to stop it being kept as a VFR only runway until finances improve?
The removal of the cross runway at Glasgow and now the cross runway at Prestwick will make a big difference to GA traffic. Prevailing wind at both is about 250deg - straight across runway 31 at PIK.
It also means that you can often get in and out much more efficiently without worrying about vortex wake.
Sadly it seems the bean counter mentality takes priority over the real world of flying.
The removal of the cross runway at Glasgow and now the cross runway at Prestwick will make a big difference to GA traffic. Prevailing wind at both is about 250deg - straight across runway 31 at PIK.
It also means that you can often get in and out much more efficiently without worrying about vortex wake.
Sadly it seems the bean counter mentality takes priority over the real world of flying.
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 14,480
Likes: 178
From: UK
I was landed on that runway last year with a generator failure, avoiding interrupting two big jets flying circuits on the main. What would moving those jets out of my way until I had safe separation have cost I wonder.
G
G
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 359
Likes: 0
From: Cloud Nine
Don't tell me that 03/21 is closing due to lack of fire cover as the firemen will be sent to the other end of the airfield to double hat as baggage handlers or litter wardens or summat? Pure Dead Brilliant. Not
Guest
Posts: n/a
It's not just closure of these surfaces as runways that can have an impact. Closure of 09/27 at Glasgow has curtailed night ops for the flying club (for the time being) due to lack of lighting to assist with access to apron W where the club aeroplanes are based.
I'm not sure if similar unintended consequences would follow from closure of 03/21 at PIK as it's not used for access. It is a rather nice runway although strangely I've been using it recently for crosswind training, rather than to get out of a crosswind!
I'm not sure if similar unintended consequences would follow from closure of 03/21 at PIK as it's not used for access. It is a rather nice runway although strangely I've been using it recently for crosswind training, rather than to get out of a crosswind!
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
From: On top of the world
honest man - my enquiries suggest it's only to be made available for scheduled commercial flights unable to accept the 31/13 crosswinds, despite the Notam i.e AVBL AT SHORT NOTICE BY PRIOR ARRANGEMENT. Is this complying with the public use licence I wonder ? Perhaps a prelude to complete runway closure, as the airport seems to be a bit short of £ just now ?
Guest
Posts: n/a
We requested 03/21 yesterday as per NOTAM but refused. Surprise surprise.
Let's get this straight folks - 03/21 is permanently closed despite the NOTAM. This is the plan. The NOTAM is just to make it look publicly available. But it's not - it's closed. Forever.
RIP PIK
Let's get this straight folks - 03/21 is permanently closed despite the NOTAM. This is the plan. The NOTAM is just to make it look publicly available. But it's not - it's closed. Forever.
RIP PIK