Amsterdam
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Amsterdam
I'm planning a trip to Amsterdam by Cherokee and wondered if anyone could recommend a reasonably priced GA airfield near Amsterdam that I could use.
I've flown myself into Schiphol for work and it was fine, but then I wasn't paying the landing / handling fees myself
I've flown myself into Schiphol for work and it was fine, but then I wasn't paying the landing / handling fees myself
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Hilversum has a very short grass runway, check it out, although i know some locals get a Seneca in there....just.
The main GA airfield is Lelystad, good tarmac runway, check the VFR reporting points, mainly Sierra on an S bend in the road, good customs facilities, good coffeeshop/restaurant and right next to the Aviodome, Holland's air museum
The main GA airfield is Lelystad, good tarmac runway, check the VFR reporting points, mainly Sierra on an S bend in the road, good customs facilities, good coffeeshop/restaurant and right next to the Aviodome, Holland's air museum
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Last time I checked the price for Schiphol it would be about 200 euros, including handling. Bose-X may have gotten a better deal but I decided not to pursue it any further.
Nearest GA field is Hilversum. It's a grass field with three runways, surrounded by trees. It is wedged between the Schiphol and Soesterberg CTRs with not much room for navigation errors. Make sure you prepare your arrival thorougly.
Another field you could use is Lelystad. One large bit of tarmac, pretty busy but very easy to approach - make sure you adhere to the VRP Bravo though, and contact Lelystad at least two minutes before Bravo. There was a nasty midair last year which killed two members of my club, and they have really tightened up their circuit procedures, radio procedures and so forth because of that accident.
Geographically, Hilversum is closer to Amsterdam but public-transport-wise, Lelystad is probably easier.
Oh, and Lelystad is comparatively pricey for an uncontrolled GA field.
Nearest GA field is Hilversum. It's a grass field with three runways, surrounded by trees. It is wedged between the Schiphol and Soesterberg CTRs with not much room for navigation errors. Make sure you prepare your arrival thorougly.
Another field you could use is Lelystad. One large bit of tarmac, pretty busy but very easy to approach - make sure you adhere to the VRP Bravo though, and contact Lelystad at least two minutes before Bravo. There was a nasty midair last year which killed two members of my club, and they have really tightened up their circuit procedures, radio procedures and so forth because of that accident.
Geographically, Hilversum is closer to Amsterdam but public-transport-wise, Lelystad is probably easier.
Oh, and Lelystad is comparatively pricey for an uncontrolled GA field.
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Thanks everyone. Lelystad it is.
I'm a bit cowardly when it comes to words like short and trees, plus there appear to be some published IFR approaches into Lelystad in case the weather stops being my friend :-)
I'm a bit cowardly when it comes to words like short and trees, plus there appear to be some published IFR approaches into Lelystad in case the weather stops being my friend :-)
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Well, yes, IFR into Lelystad...
Lelystad is an uncontrolled airfield with ambitions. They have a control-tower-structure although I've heard that it's located slightly wrong wrt. the sight lines. They have a planning application running (for quite a while now) for extending the runway. They have a few IFR approaches written up and actually have an ILS at the field right now (but it's still unlicensed and I think actually turned off). Eventually they want to become a controlled field, used as an overflow field for Schiphol airport, attracting bizjets, mostly, but maybe a few charter or LoCos too. And their current landing fees already match this ambition, as far as I'm concerned.
I have no IR so have never reviewed the actual IFR procedures but I think they're limited to when the weather is truly below VMC, or during the night. But I don't think you could use them if somebody decides that the weather is VMC enough, and goes circuit bashing.
So before you start thinking about using the IFR procedures into Lelystad, carefully read the fine print that's associated with them. Chances are that they're not available when you want/need them.
==============
Edited: I just checked the Dutch AIP (AIS Netherlands) and here's what it has to say about IFR into Lelystad:
And the OPR HR AD are:
This is reinforced when discussing the instrument departures and arrivals:
Lelystad is an uncontrolled airfield with ambitions. They have a control-tower-structure although I've heard that it's located slightly wrong wrt. the sight lines. They have a planning application running (for quite a while now) for extending the runway. They have a few IFR approaches written up and actually have an ILS at the field right now (but it's still unlicensed and I think actually turned off). Eventually they want to become a controlled field, used as an overflow field for Schiphol airport, attracting bizjets, mostly, but maybe a few charter or LoCos too. And their current landing fees already match this ambition, as far as I'm concerned.
I have no IR so have never reviewed the actual IFR procedures but I think they're limited to when the weather is truly below VMC, or during the night. But I don't think you could use them if somebody decides that the weather is VMC enough, and goes circuit bashing.
So before you start thinking about using the IFR procedures into Lelystad, carefully read the fine print that's associated with them. Chances are that they're not available when you want/need them.
==============
Edited: I just checked the Dutch AIP (AIS Netherlands) and here's what it has to say about IFR into Lelystad:
IFR from MON-FRI only outside UDP, during OPR HR AD.
MON-FRI: 0700-2000 (0600-1900);
SAT, SUN and HOL: 0800-1800 (0700-1700) or end of UDP whichever is earlier. Outside OPR HR AD O/R.
SAT, SUN and HOL: 0800-1800 (0700-1700) or end of UDP whichever is earlier. Outside OPR HR AD O/R.
The following restrictions apply for these instrument procedures:
1. Instrument procedures are only to be used outside the uniform daylight period from 0600-2200 (0500-2100) during the opening hours from MON-FRI of the aerodrome Lelystad.
2. The number of flights which may use these procedures is restricted and prior permission is required. During wintertime requests are to be made before 1900 (see EHLE AD 2.3).
1. Instrument procedures are only to be used outside the uniform daylight period from 0600-2200 (0500-2100) during the opening hours from MON-FRI of the aerodrome Lelystad.
2. The number of flights which may use these procedures is restricted and prior permission is required. During wintertime requests are to be made before 1900 (see EHLE AD 2.3).
Last edited by BackPacker; 3rd Dec 2008 at 19:13.
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Oh yes! How strange!
There's a published NDB DME approach for both runways, but it's only available outside of daylight hours and by special arrangement!
Let's hope it's VFR!
There's a published NDB DME approach for both runways, but it's only available outside of daylight hours and by special arrangement!
Let's hope it's VFR!
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Why not try Rotterdam (RTM), its not any further from Amsterdam than Lelystad and is propperly equiped with ILS, VOR/DME approaches on both ends and its also hugely known for its GA activities.
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Rotterdam, just like Schiphol, requires handling which will set you back approx. 100 euros in addition to the landing fees. So if you're willing to pay for that you might as well go to Schiphol immediately.
But it's true that the distance/time from Amsterdam to Rotterdam is about the same as Amsterdam to Lelystad, both by car and public transport.
But it's true that the distance/time from Amsterdam to Rotterdam is about the same as Amsterdam to Lelystad, both by car and public transport.
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According to the guys at KLM Jets Centre a weekend in a Cherokee at Amsterdam will cost you about 180 Euros plus tax. You have to book a slot on +31 204059730 and handling with KLM is on +31 206488178
I have flown light GA into Schipol many times and the service has always been first class. GA even has it's own dedicated runways and terminal building.
It never ceases to amaze me that people will suggest alternatives to the main airport as a way of saving money yet when you actually sum it up it will cost you more to get into the city from places like Rotterdam, Hilversum, Lelystad etc. Fro Schiphol to Central station is a single train 20 mins from the station located under the airport. Once in town the world is your Oyster, the nuber 1&2 trams will take you down through Dam Square and onto the Leidzeplein and the Vondel park all within an hour of landing. I lived in Amsterdam for 5 years and still return regularly to visit friends.
I have flown light GA into Schipol many times and the service has always been first class. GA even has it's own dedicated runways and terminal building.
It never ceases to amaze me that people will suggest alternatives to the main airport as a way of saving money yet when you actually sum it up it will cost you more to get into the city from places like Rotterdam, Hilversum, Lelystad etc. Fro Schiphol to Central station is a single train 20 mins from the station located under the airport. Once in town the world is your Oyster, the nuber 1&2 trams will take you down through Dam Square and onto the Leidzeplein and the Vondel park all within an hour of landing. I lived in Amsterdam for 5 years and still return regularly to visit friends.
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Rumour has it that Aviapartner is substantially cheaper than the KLM Jet Center for SEP aircraft handling. They're active at Rotterdam and Schiphol as well. Worth a call.
From the Schiphol main terminal it is indeed a 15 to 19 minute train ride into the center of Amsterdam (watch out for pickpockets on this line). But the GA terminal is at the other side of the field so you have to find a way to get around. I don't know if the handling agent will bring you, or whether you need to take any of the buses that circle the airport. Or you can get a taxi straight from there into the city center.
The direct train from Lelystad to Amsterdam Central Station takes 40 minutes and you've got the same issue of getting from the terminal to the train station.
The full public transport planner at 9292ov.nl: OV-reisinformatie en routeplanner voor bus, trein, metro, tram en veerboot will give you the details. Best I could come up with is 1:11 for Lelystad to Amsterdam and 0:32 for Schiphol East to Amsterdam. From Rotterdam it's 1:31 and from Hilversum 1:19.
From the Schiphol main terminal it is indeed a 15 to 19 minute train ride into the center of Amsterdam (watch out for pickpockets on this line). But the GA terminal is at the other side of the field so you have to find a way to get around. I don't know if the handling agent will bring you, or whether you need to take any of the buses that circle the airport. Or you can get a taxi straight from there into the city center.
The direct train from Lelystad to Amsterdam Central Station takes 40 minutes and you've got the same issue of getting from the terminal to the train station.
The full public transport planner at 9292ov.nl: OV-reisinformatie en routeplanner voor bus, trein, metro, tram en veerboot will give you the details. Best I could come up with is 1:11 for Lelystad to Amsterdam and 0:32 for Schiphol East to Amsterdam. From Rotterdam it's 1:31 and from Hilversum 1:19.
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Mmm. Factor in the additional flight time to Lelystad, and Schiphol may indeed be more attractive. If you come from the SW and follow normal circuit joining procedures for Schiphol and Lelystad, the difference is approximately 19 nm, to be flown twice of course.
Oh, and don't forget the "wow" factor. Lelystad is busy but not really spectacular. But Schiphol is one of the largest airports in Europe and even though you'll be landing on the comparatively small Schiphol Oost runway (04/22), the same tower frequency also handles one or two main runways, depending on the wind. Bizjets routinely land on 22 (it's got an ILS) and I have landed there (as a passenger) in several aircraft up to 737s if there was a strong SW wind.
It also has a few other twists: a midrunway or threshold base, depending on ATC instructions. It's got ground radar so the transponder needs to be on at all times the engine is running. Customs require no P/N but you do need to verify slots and slot times - the NOTAMs will tell you when slots are available and required, but it's best to call ahead in any case.
Landing there in a Cherokee will definitely give you some bragging points for the club bar.
Something else: Does your Cherokee have Mode-S? You will need to do some extra planning if it doesn't because Mode-S is a requirement in the Netherlands but there are exceptions. The Dutch AIP and the relevant AIC has the details.
Oh, and don't forget the "wow" factor. Lelystad is busy but not really spectacular. But Schiphol is one of the largest airports in Europe and even though you'll be landing on the comparatively small Schiphol Oost runway (04/22), the same tower frequency also handles one or two main runways, depending on the wind. Bizjets routinely land on 22 (it's got an ILS) and I have landed there (as a passenger) in several aircraft up to 737s if there was a strong SW wind.
It also has a few other twists: a midrunway or threshold base, depending on ATC instructions. It's got ground radar so the transponder needs to be on at all times the engine is running. Customs require no P/N but you do need to verify slots and slot times - the NOTAMs will tell you when slots are available and required, but it's best to call ahead in any case.
Landing there in a Cherokee will definitely give you some bragging points for the club bar.
Something else: Does your Cherokee have Mode-S? You will need to do some extra planning if it doesn't because Mode-S is a requirement in the Netherlands but there are exceptions. The Dutch AIP and the relevant AIC has the details.
