Man killed in Norfolk plane crash
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: UK,Twighlight Zone
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My reading of it just makes me think that it was just a really unlucky accident.
You could do a dozen what if's and change the scenario but at the end of the day as with any other accident the dice fell the wrong way.
A sad end for fellow aviators and a few lessons to be learn't but I see nothing that darkens the memory of our fellow enthusiasts.
Live is nothing without an element of risk.
You could do a dozen what if's and change the scenario but at the end of the day as with any other accident the dice fell the wrong way.
A sad end for fellow aviators and a few lessons to be learn't but I see nothing that darkens the memory of our fellow enthusiasts.
Live is nothing without an element of risk.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Gt. Yarmouth, Norfolk
Age: 68
Posts: 799
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I did not know Steve Shutt as well as Al - I had only known him since owning a share in G-EGUL. We had all dined a month before and looked forward to many years flying and shared ownership. It was a horendous and tragic accident which everyone whose life Steve touched felt deeply. When I saw someone leaping in to point the finger this morning on the basis on zero facts to support his position I am afraid I lost it. Apologies to all.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: London
Posts: 500
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Justiciar
I don't think there is any need to apologise, you were very close to those involved in this accident. I knew Ian and had been speaking to him on the Sunday before the accident. I had met Steve and he seemed an A1 bloke. I was driving close enough to Seething to see the Air Ambulance screaming overhead and actually thought "He's going to bust straight through the Seething ATZ at that rate." The news on the local television that evening was a real shock.
The comment about pressure to get a photograph for the magazine seems to me to be both uncalled for and plain wrong. The type of flight profile was the same as flown by Ian on numerous previous occasions and we are all familiar with his articles and the photos illustrating them.
This appears to have been a tragic accident and the cause will be understandable to any of us who are experienced on the Pitts, Eagle and similar types. As Al says the AAIB have produced a thorough, very fair, sensitive and empathetic report. There are few, if any, new lessons to be learnt from it.
Let's not start going through it with a fine tooth comb only to seek to criticise the memories of two good husbands, fathers and total aviation people
Legalapproach
I don't think there is any need to apologise, you were very close to those involved in this accident. I knew Ian and had been speaking to him on the Sunday before the accident. I had met Steve and he seemed an A1 bloke. I was driving close enough to Seething to see the Air Ambulance screaming overhead and actually thought "He's going to bust straight through the Seething ATZ at that rate." The news on the local television that evening was a real shock.
The comment about pressure to get a photograph for the magazine seems to me to be both uncalled for and plain wrong. The type of flight profile was the same as flown by Ian on numerous previous occasions and we are all familiar with his articles and the photos illustrating them.
This appears to have been a tragic accident and the cause will be understandable to any of us who are experienced on the Pitts, Eagle and similar types. As Al says the AAIB have produced a thorough, very fair, sensitive and empathetic report. There are few, if any, new lessons to be learnt from it.
Let's not start going through it with a fine tooth comb only to seek to criticise the memories of two good husbands, fathers and total aviation people
Legalapproach
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Central London
Posts: 460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maybe time for magazines to use photo shoots in a more controlled environment?
Seething has been used by a flying magazine as a base for it's articles for a number of years since Archant took over.
Seething has been used by a flying magazine as a base for it's articles for a number of years since Archant took over.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: London
Posts: 247
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The investigation concluded that the aircraft’s final approach was flown such that its occupants were unable to ensure that the flight path ahead was clear of obstacles.
Live (sic) is nothing without an element of risk.
I'm not meaning to cause hurt to those who knew these gentlemen but I don't buy the view that there's not a wake up call to the rest of us here.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Central London
Posts: 460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think that from the previous posts those of us outside the UK will recognise that there is a movement to close this incindent.
However this airfield has been used by Archant for many years for both their flying magazine Pilot and aerial photo's for the Eastern Daily Press morning newspaper.
PPL Mike Page at Seething has supplied hundreds of aerial pictures for Archant (Pilot and Eastern Daily Press) every year and Ian Davies did the flying.
So where does Archant feature in this accident?
However this airfield has been used by Archant for many years for both their flying magazine Pilot and aerial photo's for the Eastern Daily Press morning newspaper.
PPL Mike Page at Seething has supplied hundreds of aerial pictures for Archant (Pilot and Eastern Daily Press) every year and Ian Davies did the flying.
So where does Archant feature in this accident?
Last edited by Phil Space; 10th Sep 2009 at 21:14.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Gt. Yarmouth, Norfolk
Age: 68
Posts: 799
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Might be, depends whose asking
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 1,966
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I always land on the threshold/piano-keys (or at least attempt to!) in this sort of a/c.
However I never drag the a/c down the extended centre line, Steve, Justiciar and I always flew a curving approach. We'd only make the centre line when the wheels were just about to touch the surface.
On this fateful occasion, a lower than normal straight in final precluded either occupant from seeing the obstruction.
A straight in approach is fine for flap equipped a/c where the application of flaps tends to move the C of P aft and correspondingly the nose down to improve the view............................................
Some folk seem to revel in analysis-overload. Phil Space, you seem to be fixated with
what-if's.
Had I not arranged some A2A pix of the a/c as a surprise for the owners, then Pilot mag might not have decided to do a feature on a strikingly pretty rebuilt Eagle. Had Steve not been a Flt Cdr on 41 Sqn, then I might never have met him and decided to put together Nelson Formation
Can we please now let this rest? Four children are without fathers, one very young and two wives have had their lives ripped apart.
Many victims of this ACCIDENT - not just Steve and Ian,
However I never drag the a/c down the extended centre line, Steve, Justiciar and I always flew a curving approach. We'd only make the centre line when the wheels were just about to touch the surface.
On this fateful occasion, a lower than normal straight in final precluded either occupant from seeing the obstruction.
A straight in approach is fine for flap equipped a/c where the application of flaps tends to move the C of P aft and correspondingly the nose down to improve the view............................................
Some folk seem to revel in analysis-overload. Phil Space, you seem to be fixated with
what-if's.Had I not arranged some A2A pix of the a/c as a surprise for the owners, then Pilot mag might not have decided to do a feature on a strikingly pretty rebuilt Eagle. Had Steve not been a Flt Cdr on 41 Sqn, then I might never have met him and decided to put together Nelson Formation
Can we please now let this rest? Four children are without fathers, one very young and two wives have had their lives ripped apart.
Many victims of this ACCIDENT - not just Steve and Ian,
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Niort
Posts: 1,235
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have not connection to the people (although the aircraft was in this locality a long time ago).
There is an awful lot of circumstancial information being threaded together to try and create a 'smoking gun' from what I can see.
The rear seat of an Eagle has poor visibility (not that the front seat is much better). The events prior to the accident are interesting background but no more than that. The reason for the flight happened to be a magazine shoot - would it have been completely different if it were not? From my reading not with the same crew onboard.
The accident might not have happened it the usual pilot or more experienced Eagle pilot have been flying - but that is a 'may' nothing more. The photo on short finals shows sunlight illuminating the scene - from the approach side there was obviously little to be seen. The pilot might have chosen to land a little deeper (or not) depending on the light, it might have actually been easier to aim for the threshold - it often is at my strip.
The incident strikes me as being much more of a real accident than the vast majority of incidents. It was pretty plainly 'unlucky' timing, distance, light any of these factors would have meant that the accident did not happen.
I'm sure all sorts of stuff will be posted, all sorts of 'remedies' suggested. I think it was a very unfortunate accident, where a variety of circumstances conspired to create this accident.
There is an awful lot of circumstancial information being threaded together to try and create a 'smoking gun' from what I can see.
The rear seat of an Eagle has poor visibility (not that the front seat is much better). The events prior to the accident are interesting background but no more than that. The reason for the flight happened to be a magazine shoot - would it have been completely different if it were not? From my reading not with the same crew onboard.
The accident might not have happened it the usual pilot or more experienced Eagle pilot have been flying - but that is a 'may' nothing more. The photo on short finals shows sunlight illuminating the scene - from the approach side there was obviously little to be seen. The pilot might have chosen to land a little deeper (or not) depending on the light, it might have actually been easier to aim for the threshold - it often is at my strip.
The incident strikes me as being much more of a real accident than the vast majority of incidents. It was pretty plainly 'unlucky' timing, distance, light any of these factors would have meant that the accident did not happen.
I'm sure all sorts of stuff will be posted, all sorts of 'remedies' suggested. I think it was a very unfortunate accident, where a variety of circumstances conspired to create this accident.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 1,966
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gasax - the view from the rear of the Eagle is actually better than from the front seat.
The view from the front is v similar to the single seat Pitts.
I only have >700 hours in Eagles and both single and two-hole Pitts', but feel qualified to comment.
The view from the front is v similar to the single seat Pitts.
I only have >700 hours in Eagles and both single and two-hole Pitts', but feel qualified to comment.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Central London
Posts: 460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not at all!
You try telling that to the wife and family of the commercial pilot who owned the aircraft.
He was sitting in the P2 seat when he entrusted the aircraft that was on an Archant photo shoot for Pilot that hit the tractor.
I'm sure that this thread will soon be pulled but there are major legal implications
for clubs and pilots who allow magazines to do these test flights without the correct paperwork in place.
Seething has been been a base for the Pilot photo crew for some years.
Google it!
You try telling that to the wife and family of the commercial pilot who owned the aircraft.
He was sitting in the P2 seat when he entrusted the aircraft that was on an Archant photo shoot for Pilot that hit the tractor.
I'm sure that this thread will soon be pulled but there are major legal implications
for clubs and pilots who allow magazines to do these test flights without the correct paperwork in place.
Seething has been been a base for the Pilot photo crew for some years.
Google it!
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: London
Posts: 247
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I empathise with the emotional need for closure on this, but the AAIB report has just come out and I feel there are important human factor issues here which can and are leading to a constructive dialog.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: UK,Twighlight Zone
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What human factors? Come on people, this is turning into an archant witch hunt.
This was an unfortunate accident that could have happened to anyone of us. Ian Davis was legal to be PIC, had appropriate differences training for tailwheel aircraft and was experienced and qualified to be able to self check on the type. If the tractor had been in a different place, the approach higher or more curved etc are comments born from the gift of hindsight. The fact is that the holes lined up in the cheese in this occasion and fate took a hand.
Thats all there is to say, lets let our fellow aviators rest in the peace they deserve and be mindful that fate is always the hunter to everyone of us.
This was an unfortunate accident that could have happened to anyone of us. Ian Davis was legal to be PIC, had appropriate differences training for tailwheel aircraft and was experienced and qualified to be able to self check on the type. If the tractor had been in a different place, the approach higher or more curved etc are comments born from the gift of hindsight. The fact is that the holes lined up in the cheese in this occasion and fate took a hand.
Thats all there is to say, lets let our fellow aviators rest in the peace they deserve and be mindful that fate is always the hunter to everyone of us.
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, Mr Space, if you'd read the AAIB report in FULL, you will see that this sortie was well briefed (as were all of the flights by the accident pilot - I knew and flew with him for both air to air and formation displays).
What all of the reports fail to mention is that Seething (both now and at the time of the accident) has a Rule 5 exemption form the CAA.
Not that this mattered because the accident occurred when the aircraft was coming into land off a go-around from an aborted landing due to a bounce.
And as for the the airfield management "not being notified" of the activity - why would/should they be? It's an airfield - and nothing illegal or remotely strange (now that you have all the facts re Rule 5) was going on.
No rules were being broken, and the pilot, a regular flyer from the airfield will have been all too aware of the operating procedures of the field.
Unfortunately, (as is often the case), it was a factor of circumstance. 30 seconds timing difference either way, and no accident would have occurred.
----
From a fellow Class Rating Instructor and Display Pilot.
What all of the reports fail to mention is that Seething (both now and at the time of the accident) has a Rule 5 exemption form the CAA.
Not that this mattered because the accident occurred when the aircraft was coming into land off a go-around from an aborted landing due to a bounce.
And as for the the airfield management "not being notified" of the activity - why would/should they be? It's an airfield - and nothing illegal or remotely strange (now that you have all the facts re Rule 5) was going on.
No rules were being broken, and the pilot, a regular flyer from the airfield will have been all too aware of the operating procedures of the field.
Unfortunately, (as is often the case), it was a factor of circumstance. 30 seconds timing difference either way, and no accident would have occurred.
----
From a fellow Class Rating Instructor and Display Pilot.