Was that you, again?
niknak
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,335
Likes: 0
From: UK
and your point is?
A civillian pilot of a non Mil registered a/c does not require any permission at any time to enter a MATZ unless the MATZ is part of a class A, B or D controlled airspace.
The Marham MATZ most certainly does not fall into that category, and since, for the most part, they cease flying at around 1700 on a Friday until 0800 on Monday, for tea, medals and generally being jolly fine fellows, aside from the possibility of glider flying who are only entitled to the ATZ, there's no relevance to your post.
A civillian pilot of a non Mil registered a/c does not require any permission at any time to enter a MATZ unless the MATZ is part of a class A, B or D controlled airspace.
The Marham MATZ most certainly does not fall into that category, and since, for the most part, they cease flying at around 1700 on a Friday until 0800 on Monday, for tea, medals and generally being jolly fine fellows, aside from the possibility of glider flying who are only entitled to the ATZ, there's no relevance to your post.
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,200
Likes: 0
From: Norfolk UK
Niknak
Your reply prompted me to look at my books and charts to refresh my memory,you'll get old one day.
The proviso as you say is that all MATZ contain an ATZ where you must not fly below 2000' without permission.
Anyway I always call a MATZ if I'm anywhere at all near them!
On the charts,the MATZ is shown with a C in front ie,CMATZ,why is that?
Lister
PS- I expect you are tucked up in bed now!
The proviso as you say is that all MATZ contain an ATZ where you must not fly below 2000' without permission.
Anyway I always call a MATZ if I'm anywhere at all near them!
On the charts,the MATZ is shown with a C in front ie,CMATZ,why is that?
Lister
PS- I expect you are tucked up in bed now!
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 235
Likes: 3
From: Down South, preferably inverted
On the charts,the MATZ is shown with a C in front ie,CMATZ,why is that?
Two MATZ combined - Boscombe Down & Middle Wallop - and 3 stubs!
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,200
Likes: 0
From: Norfolk UK
Mad Girl
Thank you ,our local is Lakenheath/Mildenhall.
I remember going through there and being told that "there are two F16's at 2500' and two at 3000' and their position, plus a heavy below you"
And there they were,never saw the heavy but the others seemed quite close and it felt great to be part of the action.
Lister
I remember going through there and being told that "there are two F16's at 2500' and two at 3000' and their position, plus a heavy below you"
And there they were,never saw the heavy but the others seemed quite close and it felt great to be part of the action.
Lister
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,102
Likes: 0
From: E Anglia
Thank you ,our local is Lakenheath/Mildenhall.
I remember going through there and being told that "there are two F16's at 2500' and two at 3000' and their position, plus a heavy below you"
And there they were,never saw the heavy but the others seemed quite close and it felt great to be part of the action.
I remember going through there and being told that "there are two F16's at 2500' and two at 3000' and their position, plus a heavy below you"
And there they were,never saw the heavy but the others seemed quite close and it felt great to be part of the action.
Norwich often are a bit slow on the uptake: Last autumn while I was doing my biennial review with a certain local ex Harrier CFI we had an exceedingly close encounter with RAF high energy metal who arced over us before diving back down to the nap of the earth.
He was certainly close enough for us not to need to look for his wing man.
A good minute later Norwich told of 'a lot of high energy traffic about'
This was in the middle of a NATO exercise and though we were well aware of the NOTAM and were well clear, this 'high energy stuff' often comes steaming in from the Wash playground at high speed and stupid altitudes before reaching the NOTAMd areas.
Cusco
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,200
Likes: 0
From: Norfolk UK
Cusco,
I reckon we use the same CFI,I was doing my bi-ennial ( in a Stearman,to narrow it down) with an ex Harrier pilot and we had a close encounter with a very fast low flying military over the Norfolk Broads.
The CFI said,"Where's the other one?"
We never saw it.
Incidentally this CFI taught me to fly at OB.
Lister
I reckon we use the same CFI,I was doing my bi-ennial ( in a Stearman,to narrow it down) with an ex Harrier pilot and we had a close encounter with a very fast low flying military over the Norfolk Broads.
The CFI said,"Where's the other one?"
We never saw it.
Incidentally this CFI taught me to fly at OB.
Lister
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 509
Likes: 0
From: The front end and about 50ft up
and your point is?
A civillian pilot of a non Mil registered a/c does not require any permission at any time to enter a MATZ unless the MATZ is part of a class A, B or D controlled airspace.
A civillian pilot of a non Mil registered a/c does not require any permission at any time to enter a MATZ unless the MATZ is part of a class A, B or D controlled airspace.
To turn it around, it would be legal for 4 C-17s to continuously fly a 3nm circle around your home GA aifield's ATZ all day between 250 and 2000ft while an 8 ship formation of Chinooks hovered in the overhead at 2050ft. Legal - yes. Good airmanship, courteous, safe etc - no.
niknak
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,335
Likes: 0
From: UK
Fg Officer - point taken and it's a good one, I shall go and wear sackcloth and sit on barbed wire for the rest of the day..
Cusco,
thanks for that, perhaps one day you'd like to come along and enlighten us with your qualifications, skill and experience, and demonstrate to us how a radar service should be provided.
Cusco,
thanks for that, perhaps one day you'd like to come along and enlighten us with your qualifications, skill and experience, and demonstrate to us how a radar service should be provided.
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,102
Likes: 0
From: E Anglia
That's the fella: you actually rang him last week while I was in his office post IMC reval..............
He's looked after all my needs for the last 15 years.
Damn fine chap, what?
Cusco.
He's looked after all my needs for the last 15 years.
Damn fine chap, what?
Cusco.
Last edited by Cusco; 16th October 2008 at 23:31.
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,102
Likes: 0
From: E Anglia
Cusco,
thanks for that, perhaps one day you'd like to come along and enlighten us with your qualifications, skill and experience, and demonstrate to us how a radar service should be provided.
thanks for that, perhaps one day you'd like to come along and enlighten us with your qualifications, skill and experience, and demonstrate to us how a radar service should be provided.
I'm only reporting what actually happened......
11th September 2007 15.40Z if you're feeling paranoid.......
Cusco
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 560
Likes: 0
From: ...back of the drag curve
To turn it around, it would be legal for 4 C-17s to continuously fly a 3nm circle around your home GA aifield's ATZ all day between 250 and 2000ft while an 8 ship formation of Chinooks hovered in the overhead at 2050ft. Legal - yes. Good airmanship, courteous, safe etc - no.
I must remind myself yet again that military aviators are always right and us civvy chaps are just useless
I must also forget that several military aircraft flew straight through a NOTAMed aerobatic competition a few months ago... Maybe they were having a less than perfect day?
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 509
Likes: 0
From: The front end and about 50ft up
Dear oh dear, Chuffer. Got out on the wrong side of the bed today? You have misinterpreted me - there's no p1ssing contest here, merely what was intended to be some common sense input. Do you actually disagree with my point or are you just seeking a bit of conflict.
Just because something is legal doesn't mean it is sensible. Everyone has 'less than perfect days' and makes mistakes, civvy or mil. If some military pilots negligently busted a notam, rest assured that on landing they probably had a severe bollocking of the sort that can have a serious detrimental impact on their careers. It's not always back to the mess for tea, medals and a laugh at those frightful civvies - sometimes it's an RAF Police investigation with an interview under caution, etc, etc.
I stand by my assertion that entering a MATZ uncleared, whilst legal is poor airmanship, and that would apply to me when I'm flying privately on my PPL as much as anyone else. I don't want to get rear-ended by a fast jet, and neither does the fast jet mate want to spear into a light aircraft. A bit of common sense and communication can reduce that risk.
Just because something is legal doesn't mean it is sensible. Everyone has 'less than perfect days' and makes mistakes, civvy or mil. If some military pilots negligently busted a notam, rest assured that on landing they probably had a severe bollocking of the sort that can have a serious detrimental impact on their careers. It's not always back to the mess for tea, medals and a laugh at those frightful civvies - sometimes it's an RAF Police investigation with an interview under caution, etc, etc.
I stand by my assertion that entering a MATZ uncleared, whilst legal is poor airmanship, and that would apply to me when I'm flying privately on my PPL as much as anyone else. I don't want to get rear-ended by a fast jet, and neither does the fast jet mate want to spear into a light aircraft. A bit of common sense and communication can reduce that risk.
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 683
Likes: 0
From: UK
I shall go flying this weekend ... I shall fly through my local MATZ ... I shan't call them ... they won't be there ... just like Marham MATZ last weekend, I'd wager ...
JD
... and I might even do a PFL or two, just for the hell of it ...
JD
... and I might even do a PFL or two, just for the hell of it ...
