How many circuits before solo?
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: LIVERPOOL
Posts: 401
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have already described my first solo in my blog "gaining a pilots brevet in W.W 2". However some may be interested on this forum on how many hours were allowed by the R.A.F to solo in 1942/43
A total of ten hours was allowed, but this included instruction on spins. stalls, forced landings, side slipping, etc.
I managed it in nine and a half hours. I think the instructors left it to the last minute, as they considered it safer. I doubt if any of us had been in an aircraft before, very few even had a driving licence. Any one who did not solo, in under 10 hours , washed out. Those who succeeded were then accepted as pilot U/T.
Training was carried out at Marshal's flying school (civilian) Cambridge. My instructor was a R.F.C WW 1 pilot who cheerfully told me not to worry when demonstrating my first spin,saying " we now know how to recover from a spin" and that in W.W1 if they got into a spin, the only thing to do was - say, "Our Father ------". I would add, though, we had previously had seven months of lessons on, engines , airframes, navigation, signals, aerodynamics, and much more.
A total of ten hours was allowed, but this included instruction on spins. stalls, forced landings, side slipping, etc.
I managed it in nine and a half hours. I think the instructors left it to the last minute, as they considered it safer. I doubt if any of us had been in an aircraft before, very few even had a driving licence. Any one who did not solo, in under 10 hours , washed out. Those who succeeded were then accepted as pilot U/T.
Training was carried out at Marshal's flying school (civilian) Cambridge. My instructor was a R.F.C WW 1 pilot who cheerfully told me not to worry when demonstrating my first spin,saying " we now know how to recover from a spin" and that in W.W1 if they got into a spin, the only thing to do was - say, "Our Father ------". I would add, though, we had previously had seven months of lessons on, engines , airframes, navigation, signals, aerodynamics, and much more.
Oh Shazbat!
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Leeds, UK
Age: 64
Posts: 239
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
cliffnemo,
A couple of years ago I was lucky enough to get a ride in a Tiger Moth, and the pilot let me have the controls for much of the flight. I was commenting on how "lively" the handling was and we got into a discussion of how those brave young chaps back in the war years got to solo in their alloted 10 hours especially in an aircraft that had to be flown all the way. His view was the calibre of the trainees was much better & that they had time to be focused on getting there as opposed to us GA types who fit flying in around office life, families etc
More recently we had the pleasure of a WW2 Halifax pilot coming to speak at the flying club. I asked him for his thoughts - how did you get to fly a Moth and make it to solo in 10 hours? His view was much more stoic - "One just did it, that's that!"
Either way, you have to be full of admiration for all of those young chaps.
Any one who did not solo, in under 10 hours , washed out. Those who succeeded were then accepted as pilot U/T.
More recently we had the pleasure of a WW2 Halifax pilot coming to speak at the flying club. I asked him for his thoughts - how did you get to fly a Moth and make it to solo in 10 hours? His view was much more stoic - "One just did it, that's that!"
Either way, you have to be full of admiration for all of those young chaps.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Harpenden
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Seventy five landings.
Nineteen hours and five minutes of logged time.
Six hours and twenty five minutes other stuff and then exercise 12 & 13 for the rest. Mostly lousy weather kept us at the field I think.
High level, low level, EFATO, fully flapped, no flaps, go-around, glide approach, all the stuff.
Then I got allowed to go and have a go on my own.
Nineteen hours and five minutes of logged time.
Six hours and twenty five minutes other stuff and then exercise 12 & 13 for the rest. Mostly lousy weather kept us at the field I think.
High level, low level, EFATO, fully flapped, no flaps, go-around, glide approach, all the stuff.
Then I got allowed to go and have a go on my own.
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,815
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As an ex instructor can I make a point that the question "how many circuits?"
Can be answered in the same way as how many hours to solo which is as many as you need.
Which is dependent on local conditions, instructor experence and wx and so many other variables that its it completely pointless having a willy waving or boobie jiggling competition comparing the amount.
Can be answered in the same way as how many hours to solo which is as many as you need.
Which is dependent on local conditions, instructor experence and wx and so many other variables that its it completely pointless having a willy waving or boobie jiggling competition comparing the amount.
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,573
Received 422 Likes
on
222 Posts
3 hrs 50 minutes in the circuit, with 7 hrs 50 minutes total flying.
No idea how many circuits that was, but it was over thirty five years ago. It was to a syllabus, after aptitude testing. If we didn't go solo on time, we failed the course, which tended to keep one concentrating nicely.
No idea how many circuits that was, but it was over thirty five years ago. It was to a syllabus, after aptitude testing. If we didn't go solo on time, we failed the course, which tended to keep one concentrating nicely.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Birmingham
Age: 32
Posts: 231
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Could somebody explain how it's possible to solo in under 8 hours, sufficiently cover the syllabus and produce a safe solo student? Im reading things like 5 hours, 7 hours, 3 hours
Just doesn't make sense to me
Cheers
Just doesn't make sense to meCheers
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Surrey UK
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Going Solo
I remember reading somewhere that the average for going solo is usually half the age of the student in hours ... thus someone of 30 years might hope to go solo after 15 hour dual. Curriously it seems quite accurate when you ask around.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Kent UK
Age: 42
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I guess I will contribute something a little more productive to the thread 
Wait right there, I am just going to check my log book.... Ok, I am back...
I soloed after 25 hours total dual, 14 of those hours in the circuit doing approx 8 circuits an hour. This seems to be a little in excess of average and I will certainly be in excess of average by the time I take the skills test. Doesn't bother me in the slightest, although if I am honest it did bother me a little bit before I went solo.
I am not a 'natural' in the air. I still get fairly nervous in turbulent air and sometimes I still need a little prompting to increase the bank in turns.
In any given activity, some people are naturals and most people can list a few things that they are naturally talented at. For some people on here aviation would be on that list, but it wouldn't be on mine. I pass all my written exams with > 90% because I have a talent for theory (navigation has been the exception, but that exam has a large practical element), but in practical applications I have to push myself all the time, *nothing* comes naturally. It's ok though, I *will* qualify and I *will* be proud of myself when I do. Just because I will never play at Wimbledon does not mean I can't enjoy a game of tennis.
The PC crowd will probably get annoyed with me, as I am suggesting that somebody who takes longer to solo has less natural ability, but while there are exceptions (in cases where circumstance, like weather work against you), this probably is the case, its just nothing to be ashamed of.
How good you are at something = Natural talent x Effort x Training which means that with the exception of the elite (who will have high numbers in all three), I have the capability of being just as good as anyone else, I will just need to put in a little more effort, and undergo a little more training to get there.
Also, in respect of the military situation of the 10 hour maximum solo time, it is important to remember that not only was there the option of picking the highest natural ability candidates, but also the candidates were volunteering to take huge personal risk far beyond those of early solo flight, (and to Cliff and others like him, how ever many times you are thanked for that, it is not enough! Thank you!). Guaranteed personal safety was not a property of aviation warfare, I am certain that there have been military pilots who soloed in < 10 hours that would not have done so on a private course. The risk acceptance level is significantly different.
Just my 2 cents.
Wait right there, I am just going to check my log book.... Ok, I am back...
I soloed after 25 hours total dual, 14 of those hours in the circuit doing approx 8 circuits an hour. This seems to be a little in excess of average and I will certainly be in excess of average by the time I take the skills test. Doesn't bother me in the slightest, although if I am honest it did bother me a little bit before I went solo.
I am not a 'natural' in the air. I still get fairly nervous in turbulent air and sometimes I still need a little prompting to increase the bank in turns.
In any given activity, some people are naturals and most people can list a few things that they are naturally talented at. For some people on here aviation would be on that list, but it wouldn't be on mine. I pass all my written exams with > 90% because I have a talent for theory (navigation has been the exception, but that exam has a large practical element), but in practical applications I have to push myself all the time, *nothing* comes naturally. It's ok though, I *will* qualify and I *will* be proud of myself when I do. Just because I will never play at Wimbledon does not mean I can't enjoy a game of tennis.
The PC crowd will probably get annoyed with me, as I am suggesting that somebody who takes longer to solo has less natural ability, but while there are exceptions (in cases where circumstance, like weather work against you), this probably is the case, its just nothing to be ashamed of.
How good you are at something = Natural talent x Effort x Training which means that with the exception of the elite (who will have high numbers in all three), I have the capability of being just as good as anyone else, I will just need to put in a little more effort, and undergo a little more training to get there.
Also, in respect of the military situation of the 10 hour maximum solo time, it is important to remember that not only was there the option of picking the highest natural ability candidates, but also the candidates were volunteering to take huge personal risk far beyond those of early solo flight, (and to Cliff and others like him, how ever many times you are thanked for that, it is not enough! Thank you!). Guaranteed personal safety was not a property of aviation warfare, I am certain that there have been military pilots who soloed in < 10 hours that would not have done so on a private course. The risk acceptance level is significantly different.
Just my 2 cents.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: 75N 16E
Age: 54
Posts: 4,729
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Took me about 25 hrs to go solo too.
That first flight solo was great! Forgot all about the silly checks, out came the digital camera and I took various self portraits from around the circuit. Next solo, during the "hour building" phase I went flying up and down Long Beach in california with the camera out enjoying the view....
Ignorance is bliss, now I find I am constantly looking for a place to land or other traffic or expecting the engine to fail at any moment....
That first flight solo was great! Forgot all about the silly checks, out came the digital camera and I took various self portraits from around the circuit. Next solo, during the "hour building" phase I went flying up and down Long Beach in california with the camera out enjoying the view....
Ignorance is bliss, now I find I am constantly looking for a place to land or other traffic or expecting the engine to fail at any moment....
This thread motivated me to look at my 40 year old logbook. I originally started my PPL with about 70 hours of gliding and soloed the Tiger Moth after 2 hours 45 minutes of circuits (plus just over an initial hour covering the rest).
I gave up flying completely for 23 years (kids do that to you) with about 100 hrs total power flying.
When I took it up again I had to do the complete syllabus again and, this time, I took 2 hours 40 minutes of circuits in a C152, almost exactly the same as before. This was at a much bigger airport and circuits took somewhat longer so a lot fewer landings. This probably reflects the easier handling of the tricycle C152.
So, I would guess that 30 - 50 landings are a reasonable number to train for solo depending on the type of aircraft and runway. This would assume that basic handling is reasonably competent by then.
I gave up flying completely for 23 years (kids do that to you) with about 100 hrs total power flying.
When I took it up again I had to do the complete syllabus again and, this time, I took 2 hours 40 minutes of circuits in a C152, almost exactly the same as before. This was at a much bigger airport and circuits took somewhat longer so a lot fewer landings. This probably reflects the easier handling of the tricycle C152.
So, I would guess that 30 - 50 landings are a reasonable number to train for solo depending on the type of aircraft and runway. This would assume that basic handling is reasonably competent by then.
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,573
Received 422 Likes
on
222 Posts
Put1992,
The RAF thought it safe; they do have a fair amount of experience in these matters. BTW, the PPL syllabus was just 35 hours and included full spinning in thse days
Could somebody explain how it's possible to solo in under 8 hours, sufficiently cover the syllabus and produce a safe solo student? Im reading things like 5 hours, 7 hours, 3 hours Just doesn't make sense to me
time to solo (hours) = age (years) - 10
No, I ain't. I had flown sailplanes and simulators and was generally interested in machinery, airplanes and aviation, a real geek if you like.
The thing is that with age, people get slower at learning both physically and mentally. However, it is a known fact that people are (genetically ?) different in terms of their ability to learn to control machinery like cars and airplanes. I know a person who took 100 driving lessons.
Also there's a motivation factor. A mate's wife was learning to fly at the same time as I. No luck. She wasn't really motivated, it was the mate who pressed her into it.
The odd thing is that my instructor found me capable of flying in IMC, including doing all normal maneuvers, for as long as there was gas in the tanks. I thank that the simming, and it has saved my life once. Started out with foggles where instructor after 30 mins instructed me to take them off. I did, we were in clouds and had been for 10 mins. Yes, illegal, he shouldn't have done that. Later we took a complete trip in IMC including ILS approaches. Anyhow, I strongly recommend PC simulators.
I've drifted way off the topic now....
When safe, and confident. Consider you might need to orbit due to other traffic, also consider the runway might get blocked by someone else and a diversion will be required. No need to rush it, enjoy your training, enjoy the flying. Thats the whole point of the game!
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Derby
Age: 45
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When
the student can keep his/her height within 200 of the required 1000 feet downwind.
Keeps the speed ABOVE stall at all times.
When you don't have to prompt their actions or radio calls.
And when they can land it at least 3 times without making you fear death.
The landings don't have to be super smooth/soft. Just good enough not to destroy the aircraft.
If you don't feel safe sending them, just let someone else do it.
1/60
Keeps the speed ABOVE stall at all times.
When you don't have to prompt their actions or radio calls.
And when they can land it at least 3 times without making you fear death.
The landings don't have to be super smooth/soft. Just good enough not to destroy the aircraft.
If you don't feel safe sending them, just let someone else do it.
1/60
