How many circuits before solo?
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Circuits are done under such high stress that the student learns very little about flying while doing them. So the answer can range from little to loads and loads.
They are an aviation tradition, along with the circular slide rule
They are an aviation tradition, along with the circular slide rule
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Too many variables example as follows:
My training was very broken that was over a 4 year period,approx 10 hrs then a year brake another 10 ish hrs 18 month brake and recovery from a smashed leg, so i could effectively say i then started again from scratch, i then went solo after 10 Hrs. so i had logged 30 hrs in over 4 years to solo, i used to be embarressed by that as it seems alot but when broken down and skill fade factered in its no so bad and i could posiblyargue i went solo in 10 hrs form when i restarted as the brake was so long.
I then went state side for 2 weeks got as far as first solo X _country, weather of all things lost me 5 days, A/C availability 2 days so never got to complete X Country qualifier or sit skills test, returned to the UK, no money left
and haven't flown in 4.5 yrs, 
one day will eventually finnish i hope.
I then went state side for 2 weeks got as far as first solo X _country, weather of all things lost me 5 days, A/C availability 2 days so never got to complete X Country qualifier or sit skills test, returned to the UK, no money left
and haven't flown in 4.5 yrs, one day will eventually finnish i hope.
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Thanks all. Reason of asking was that I've been in the circuit for ~5 lessons (35circuits I think), though I'm aware that another 3hrs of solo consolidation in the circuit is needed afterward. Seems a bit of overkill to me and would far prefer to have an instructor doing those 3hrs in progressively worse conditions which to me would be better experience?
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I would have been in tears if I'd had to do 3 hours in the circuit after soloing... 
Almost all of my 10 hours solo was x-country, 8 of them done in one go at the end of my training... Loved it! 
Funny how different things are done in different places; seems training in Sweden is nothing like doing it in the UK...
I do enjoy pattern work now tho'; getting better at it is fun, learning to do it in the first place was a tad not so IMHO...
Almost all of my 10 hours solo was x-country, 8 of them done in one go at the end of my training... Loved it! Funny how different things are done in different places; seems training in Sweden is nothing like doing it in the UK...
I do enjoy pattern work now tho'; getting better at it is fun, learning to do it in the first place was a tad not so IMHO...
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My own experience suggested that it depends very much on the intention of the instructor. I started my ppl training about 3 years ago with a prepaid 45 hr package course.
By the time I did 43 hr total and about 140 touch and go, there was still no suggestion from the full time instructor that I could go solo . When I politely asked when I could do it, he just frown and said I needed to do the circuit and landing perfectly befor I ccould go solo. I felt, as a low hour student, I could not do perfect landing, so I discussed briefly with the CFI and he didn't seem to suggest anything else I could do. Out of despereration, I changed to a part time instructor, who was a retired gentleman, and within one and half hr flying he was happy to send me solo, and I did the best landing I've ever had. The full time instructor left for an airline job soon after.
Hope my experience contribute to the discussion on this subject.
By the time I did 43 hr total and about 140 touch and go, there was still no suggestion from the full time instructor that I could go solo . When I politely asked when I could do it, he just frown and said I needed to do the circuit and landing perfectly befor I ccould go solo. I felt, as a low hour student, I could not do perfect landing, so I discussed briefly with the CFI and he didn't seem to suggest anything else I could do. Out of despereration, I changed to a part time instructor, who was a retired gentleman, and within one and half hr flying he was happy to send me solo, and I did the best landing I've ever had. The full time instructor left for an airline job soon after.
Hope my experience contribute to the discussion on this subject.
When your instructor doesn't have anything to say and starts showing signs of boredom, just keep on keeping him bored.
We are not birds; so we need time to learn the perceptual clues along with the muscle motions.
We are not birds; so we need time to learn the perceptual clues along with the muscle motions.
As an instructor who has sent over 30 folks solo, I would like to provide my 0.02 cents.
First how long it took you to solo IMO will likely have very little bearing in how good an aviator you turn out to be. Anybody who boasts that he soloed in only X hours is IMO, a pratt as there is much more to flying an aircraft than being able to take off and land under the controlled circumstances of the first solo. I think it is important to understand that the circuit is used to learn how to take off and land. Before you get to the circuit all the esential aircraft handling skills should be there. In my experience when asked to take over students who were not progressing in the circuit I invariably found significant weakness in fundamental aircraft control skills. In all cases I stopped the circuit execises and we went to the practice area to work on the basics. Only when I was satisfied they could consistantly maintain a commanded attitude and airspeed, did we return to the circuit. The important thing IMO is that there is an improvement as you progress through your training and you have a clear understanding of what you are doing well and what is not satisfactory. If you are going around and around the airport and things are not getting better than it is important you sit down with your instructor and have a clear discussion on what he plan is to address your problems. Depending on how that goes a talk to the chief flying instructor maybe in order.
First how long it took you to solo IMO will likely have very little bearing in how good an aviator you turn out to be. Anybody who boasts that he soloed in only X hours is IMO, a pratt as there is much more to flying an aircraft than being able to take off and land under the controlled circumstances of the first solo. I think it is important to understand that the circuit is used to learn how to take off and land. Before you get to the circuit all the esential aircraft handling skills should be there. In my experience when asked to take over students who were not progressing in the circuit I invariably found significant weakness in fundamental aircraft control skills. In all cases I stopped the circuit execises and we went to the practice area to work on the basics. Only when I was satisfied they could consistantly maintain a commanded attitude and airspeed, did we return to the circuit. The important thing IMO is that there is an improvement as you progress through your training and you have a clear understanding of what you are doing well and what is not satisfactory. If you are going around and around the airport and things are not getting better than it is important you sit down with your instructor and have a clear discussion on what he plan is to address your problems. Depending on how that goes a talk to the chief flying instructor maybe in order.
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I've been in the circuit for ~5 lessons (35circuits I think), though I'm aware that another 3hrs of solo consolidation in the circuit is needed afterward. Seems a bit of overkill to me and would far prefer to have an instructor doing those 3hrs in progressively worse conditions which to me would be better experience?
Overkill, after 5 lessons 
I have logged over 7000 landings in 13 different aircraft in my logbook and I still go for some touch and go's now and then.
As to the worse conditions, your instructor can not order the weather. If you want crosswind you may have to wait for weeks to get it.
I agree with Big Pistons Forever, basic flying skills are required before being able to fly the circuit because in the circuit you will be climbing, flying straight and level, reducing speed while maintaining altitude, configuring, descending, making drift corrections, and then finally the round-out.
No way you can do that correctly if you do not have the basic flying skills (SLF, climb, descend, trimming, attitude flying (nose position in relation to horizon))
Therefore I spend the first hours only doing these things, no circuits. Then I will introduce the circuit. The following flights I will first go to the working area for 25 minutes basic flying before going back to the circuit for 30 minutes.
This might seem a disadvantage for the student seeking to be solo ASAP, but I think it is better this way.
Bart
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Went solo in 4hrs. after some gliding 17 years before. Although I was probably ready for it, it came completely out of the blue, and I didn't enjoy it much, as I felt I needed more. As an earlier poster said, very sensibly, you need as many as necessary!!!!!. I also conceded at one point to my instructor that flying sometimes scared me. His reply was 'good'. When I queried why he said that, he replied 'then you will treat it with the respect it deserves'. I always felt that his remark was the best possible advice for a student, and I always flew with that in mind. You can never have too many circuits, as long as you always strive to make them better and not get complacent.
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As most of the folk here have already said, its whenever your intructor feels confident enough to send you on your way and when you feel ready. You'll get to the point where your circuits are almost faultless and you'll know its time!
I did 3 hours of circuits before I was allowed to go solo. Infact before I was allowed to go, I had to fly with the CFI and do a couple of circuits with him. I went solo at 13.4 hours... that was a month ago now! Just about to do my local area solo
I did 3 hours of circuits before I was allowed to go solo. Infact before I was allowed to go, I had to fly with the CFI and do a couple of circuits with him. I went solo at 13.4 hours... that was a month ago now! Just about to do my local area solo
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Job Done
Thanks all. To give a feel to anyone else in future (though I agree with all above comments as per my original post), I went solo last night, think it was the 40th circuit. I was given the option on 30 (and felt ready, though tired) though decided to wait until the next lesson during which it wasn't possible.
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40-100
My little Registered Facility has soloed about 25 pilots. I think all of them except perhaps two were in the 40-100 landings interval. I see a quite strong correlation with student's age within the interval.
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Good thread this. I'm about to take my 6th hour of circuits and was wondering if I was taking too long to suss out what to be doing.
Getting some bounced landings and some very smooth ones, just trying to get them consistant now....oh and get that exam out the way!
Getting some bounced landings and some very smooth ones, just trying to get them consistant now....oh and get that exam out the way!
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I see a quite strong correlation with student's age within the interval.
Unfortunately I have forgotten it
Something like
time to solo (hours) = age (years) - 10
But the basic point is that the PPL training sausage machine's phychotic preoccupation with "going solo" is thoroughly unhealthy and wastes a lot of hours by stressing out the student through endless circuit bashing.
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Originally Posted by IO540
But the basic point is that the PPL training sausage machine's phychotic preoccupation with "going solo" is thoroughly unhealthy and wastes a lot of hours by stressing out the student through endless circuit bashing.
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GOOD POINT!
but i dunno practisin forced landings after takeoff. its a good idea to b well drilled in what to do IF it happens, but not sure its entirely necessary to actually practice. we just did a load of them on crosswind, downwind and base. but ur right, i dont think any1 shud go solo unless they no Exactly what to do IF.
Practising further for this came for me after my first solo.
but i dunno practisin forced landings after takeoff. its a good idea to b well drilled in what to do IF it happens, but not sure its entirely necessary to actually practice. we just did a load of them on crosswind, downwind and base. but ur right, i dont think any1 shud go solo unless they no Exactly what to do IF.
Practising further for this came for me after my first solo.
