Frustrated with this damned summer
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Originally Posted by Crash One
I don't think the way it is described is correct, "our fault, industry, the motor car, aviation etc" I believe it has been creeping up on us for thousands of years, since Neanderthal started to cut down trees.
It's only human nature to blame everything but ourselves for what's happening, but sooner or later common sense will have to prevail. However, it's also human nature to remain in denial until the evidence is so overwhelming that it will probably be too late to do anything about it, except fight for dwindling food and water resources. I find it puzzling that natural selection has led to the dominance of selfishness over common sense, to the extent that we seem willing to self-destruct, to maintain our lifestyles.
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I wondered how long it would be before Global Freedom Oppress... oops sorry Global Warmi... oops sorry Climate Change was mentioned on this thread. 
Overall weather wasn't too bad until about 4-5 weeks ago, when things went rapidly downhill. Muchos heavy rain & low cloud since then. Managed to squeeze in a Navex about two weeks ago though during a brief spell when the weather was half-decent, but that's all. August has been a quiet month. Gives the bank account a rest though
Forecasts predicting a good weekend... that means it will probably be keech again
Smithy
Overall weather wasn't too bad until about 4-5 weeks ago, when things went rapidly downhill. Muchos heavy rain & low cloud since then. Managed to squeeze in a Navex about two weeks ago though during a brief spell when the weather was half-decent, but that's all. August has been a quiet month. Gives the bank account a rest though
Forecasts predicting a good weekend... that means it will probably be keech again
Smithy
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soay said in part.....
" Once the temperature rises enough to melt the permafrosts, which is already happening in Alaska and Siberia, the methane trapped beneath them is released, in a positive feedback cycle. Methane is apparently about 20 times as effective a greenhouse gas as CO2, partly because it remains in the atmosphere for much longer."
Aviate says...
Firstly where is the actual data and not hysterical Greenie Hyped claptrap?
Take one substantiated fact. Since 1750 the Anthropogenic CO2 added to the planet's atmosphere is barely one 10,000th part. Do you really believe adding 1/10,000th part to atmospheric gases is really affecting our climate. Which is and always has been variable.
Maybe, just maybe, the Sun has more effect and not garbage in - garbage out computer climate modeling [ ever seen a weather forecast accurate to more than a few days at best [in the UK]?
" Once the temperature rises enough to melt the permafrosts, which is already happening in Alaska and Siberia, the methane trapped beneath them is released, in a positive feedback cycle. Methane is apparently about 20 times as effective a greenhouse gas as CO2, partly because it remains in the atmosphere for much longer."
Aviate says...
Firstly where is the actual data and not hysterical Greenie Hyped claptrap?
Take one substantiated fact. Since 1750 the Anthropogenic CO2 added to the planet's atmosphere is barely one 10,000th part. Do you really believe adding 1/10,000th part to atmospheric gases is really affecting our climate. Which is and always has been variable.
Maybe, just maybe, the Sun has more effect and not garbage in - garbage out computer climate modeling [ ever seen a weather forecast accurate to more than a few days at best [in the UK]?
Last edited by aviate1138; 19th Aug 2008 at 09:57. Reason: typo
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Originally Posted by "aviate1138
where is the actual data and not hysterical Greenie Hyped claptrap?
"It has been known since 1869 that CO2 traps heat. This is settled physics. It has been shown beyond a shadow of doubt that humans have increased CO2 in the atmosphere by 30% in the last 150 years. Basic physics plus remedial math, and the rest is details."
NASA, not normally associated with "hysterical Greenie Hyped claptrap", concurs here.
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I'm no expert on this but didn't we hear recently that other planets in our solar system are also suffering from climate change? If this is true then ???
So we may have increased CO2 by 30% in 150yrs. This depends on the concentration level before we started. Let's suppose it was 3parts per million, now it is 4parts per million, is that a big deal?
What I am saying here is, 30% of what? Let us not have people believe that CO2 amounts to 30% of the total atmosphere!!
Figures , statistics, surveys etc can be made to look anything you like.
Call me a sceptic / unbeliever, what you will.
I seem to remember circa 1963? the sea froze in Devonport harbour. Was that a mini ice age?
So we may have increased CO2 by 30% in 150yrs. This depends on the concentration level before we started. Let's suppose it was 3parts per million, now it is 4parts per million, is that a big deal?
What I am saying here is, 30% of what? Let us not have people believe that CO2 amounts to 30% of the total atmosphere!!
Figures , statistics, surveys etc can be made to look anything you like.
Call me a sceptic / unbeliever, what you will.
I seem to remember circa 1963? the sea froze in Devonport harbour. Was that a mini ice age?
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In the last 30 years, the concentration of CFCs in the atmosphere has doubled from about 420 to 840 parts per trillion, but it's still enough to burn holes in the ozone layer - as predicted by the scientists at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography. I think it's safe to assume that they understand the much simpler physics of greenhouse gases as well!
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If an increase of a few hundred parts per trillion can have such devastating effect on this planet then I suspect the environment is far too unstable for us to meddle with it. If we try to slow the rate of destruction we may well easily go too far & trigger an ice age.
I do not doubt the qualifications of these scientists. But, what proof is there that climate change is going to continue until it makes life as we know it impossible? If it increased rapidly in the blip of 150 yrs, surely it may be the result of a solar flare, a wiggle in our orbit, or whatever else that we may not know about yet, that may be a regular occurence every 2billion yrs, & may decrease just as rapidly. Where is the proof that it will not?
Just because industry & climate change detection happened at the same time doesn't mean they have to be related.
If the weather the day after tomorrow cannot be predicted accurately enough for flight planning purposes, how can we believe that climate change over the next few yrs, let alone hundreds of yrs, can be predicted any more accurately?
Animal life in various forms have been generating methane in vast quantities far longer than a few pockets of mankind have been burning a few lumps of coal, volcanoes pooping off regularly probably shoot half an industrial revolution's worth of greenhouse gas upwards every few yrs.
I am not convinced we started it, or can stop it.
I do not doubt the qualifications of these scientists. But, what proof is there that climate change is going to continue until it makes life as we know it impossible? If it increased rapidly in the blip of 150 yrs, surely it may be the result of a solar flare, a wiggle in our orbit, or whatever else that we may not know about yet, that may be a regular occurence every 2billion yrs, & may decrease just as rapidly. Where is the proof that it will not?
Just because industry & climate change detection happened at the same time doesn't mean they have to be related.
If the weather the day after tomorrow cannot be predicted accurately enough for flight planning purposes, how can we believe that climate change over the next few yrs, let alone hundreds of yrs, can be predicted any more accurately?
Animal life in various forms have been generating methane in vast quantities far longer than a few pockets of mankind have been burning a few lumps of coal, volcanoes pooping off regularly probably shoot half an industrial revolution's worth of greenhouse gas upwards every few yrs.
I am not convinced we started it, or can stop it.
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soay is blinded by the Greenie mantra that Anthopogenic Global Warming is proven and yet there is not one shred of scientific data that says mankind is making the planet warmer. Plenty of hysterical Al Gore/J Porrit/J Hansen/IPCC politically warped computer predictions but no true independently reviewed scientific data. Peer reviewed, yes but that is so very often reviewed with none of the original data being made available!!!
CO2 is not a poison. We need it. What we don't need is socio-political Greenies using the lie of AGW to inflict more taxes on everyone.
Next thing soay will be brandishing will be Mann's hockey stick!
CO2 is not a poison. We need it. What we don't need is socio-political Greenies using the lie of AGW to inflict more taxes on everyone.
Next thing soay will be brandishing will be Mann's hockey stick!
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Originally Posted by aviate1138
soay is blinded by the Greenie mantra ...
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Apart from the GW debate........
Having sold my share and being retired I'm seriously considering chucking in this UK flying lark due wx.
Any suggestions (not offensive please) of a nice warm place with some good wx where a UK licence can be used hassle free. I fancy a week or two at a time.
Its got to be cheaper than owning/sharing a plane in the uk with little prospect of flying.
SF
Having sold my share and being retired I'm seriously considering chucking in this UK flying lark due wx.
Any suggestions (not offensive please) of a nice warm place with some good wx where a UK licence can be used hassle free. I fancy a week or two at a time.
Its got to be cheaper than owning/sharing a plane in the uk with little prospect of flying.
SF
Its got to be cheaper than owning/sharing a plane in the uk with little prospect of flying.
I've got in 60-odd VFR hours in the UK this year so far, admittedly down a bit on the last couple of years, but there are reasons other than weather to account for that (a particularly busy year at work for instance).
Yes, the weather this August has been dominated by a procession of lows, but if the Azores high pressure had been over us for the month we'd all have been complaining about poor visibility through haze.
All part of the joys and challenges of flying in the UK climate in my view.
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It seems to me that a lot of people are suffering from not being able to arrange to fly when they want to, due to
1 - weather
2 - personal availability
3 - aircraft availability
My suggestion is to look at what can be done about these.
1 you can partly fix by getting an instrument qualification. It is also the case (a slight paradox, this) that to fly to the limits of legal VFR you jolly well need a full instrument navigation capability. I have an IR and would cancel perhaps 25% of randomly planned future flights. If I had only a plain PPL I would be cancelling at least 75% of randomly planned flights. But the % figures also depend on whether the plane is half decent - a piece of junk is no good even if you do have an IR (or an IMCR). They also depend on the availability of instrument runways.
2 and 3 are personal things. If you buy a plane of your own, or buy a share in a well managed small group, then you get good availability. You also get the lowest marginal flying costs.
1 - weather
2 - personal availability
3 - aircraft availability
My suggestion is to look at what can be done about these.
1 you can partly fix by getting an instrument qualification. It is also the case (a slight paradox, this) that to fly to the limits of legal VFR you jolly well need a full instrument navigation capability. I have an IR and would cancel perhaps 25% of randomly planned future flights. If I had only a plain PPL I would be cancelling at least 75% of randomly planned flights. But the % figures also depend on whether the plane is half decent - a piece of junk is no good even if you do have an IR (or an IMCR). They also depend on the availability of instrument runways.
2 and 3 are personal things. If you buy a plane of your own, or buy a share in a well managed small group, then you get good availability. You also get the lowest marginal flying costs.
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Quote: Having sold my share and being retired I'm seriously considering chucking in this UK flying lark due wx.
Unfortunately? Iv'e just done the reverse, retired & bought an a/c.
I have all the time in the world to fly but so far 25 hrs since April mostly due to wx. Sometimes wonder if I did the right thing.
Unfortunately? Iv'e just done the reverse, retired & bought an a/c.
I have all the time in the world to fly but so far 25 hrs since April mostly due to wx. Sometimes wonder if I did the right thing.
Last edited by Crash one; 20th Aug 2008 at 17:19.
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The French are blaming it all on the fact that there are 13 full moons this year. A year being the 12 months between Winter Solstices . Not a calendar year. There were 13 last 'year' too. It's back to the normal 12 next year so the weather should be good in 2009.
About as accurate a forecast technique as the Met Office!
Best wishes
About as accurate a forecast technique as the Met Office!
Best wishes
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So while we're all worrying about CO2, it was the moon all along! 
Instead of that massive mirror to reflect some of the sun away from the earth and keep us all cool. How about a drag 'chute for the moon?
Instead of that massive mirror to reflect some of the sun away from the earth and keep us all cool. How about a drag 'chute for the moon?