Trimming, Landing & Instructors - HELP!!!
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: London
Age: 71
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
At roughly what speed does a 152 actually stall at?
Do you get plenty of warning before the stall? (I'm not including the stall warner in this, but what you actually feel.)
Does the a/c speed actually have anything to do with the price of fish in a stall, or is there some other magical thing involved?
Do you get plenty of warning before the stall? (I'm not including the stall warner in this, but what you actually feel.)
Does the a/c speed actually have anything to do with the price of fish in a stall, or is there some other magical thing involved?
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: London
Age: 71
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That fact that somebody crashed on a balked landing, while not being able to retract the flaps, says to me one of two things: That pilot could not manage the circumstances, and lost control of an aircraft, which as a part of it’s certification had demonstrated that such a maneuver could be safely accomplished under stated conditions,
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 4,598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Really? Not seen this in Cessna 152 POH - page number?
I'll retract whatever I said and humbly apologise if you can point me to the section of the C152 POH where it says that touchdowns should be done at 70 knots, otherwise control of the airplane will be lost.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: London
Age: 71
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
people posting here generally are trying to assure that the best prevailing wisdom, which is based upon vast experience
(Sorry guys but you asked for it
)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: London
Age: 71
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'll retract whatever I said and humbly apologise if you can point me to the section of the C152 POH where it says that touchdowns should be done at 70 knots, otherwise control of the airplane will be lost.
May I suggest we return to first principals.
For aircraft with nosewheels, safe landings require that at the moment of touchdown, the aircraft be in the centre of the runway, aligned with the direction of the runway and touch down with a gentle rate of descent and on the mainwheels first with the nose wheel still in the air
Satisfing the above criteria for landing will result in a touchdown slightly above stall speed. Extra speed on the approach will not change the touch down speed, it will only prolong the flare.
Finally control of the aircraft is what makes safe landings. Pilots crash on landings because they were incapable of keeping the aircraft within its safe flight envelope. For low time pilots I would suggest staying away from the edges of the envelope. For landings the way to do that is flying the POH recommended speeds
For aircraft with nosewheels, safe landings require that at the moment of touchdown, the aircraft be in the centre of the runway, aligned with the direction of the runway and touch down with a gentle rate of descent and on the mainwheels first with the nose wheel still in the air
Satisfing the above criteria for landing will result in a touchdown slightly above stall speed. Extra speed on the approach will not change the touch down speed, it will only prolong the flare.
Finally control of the aircraft is what makes safe landings. Pilots crash on landings because they were incapable of keeping the aircraft within its safe flight envelope. For low time pilots I would suggest staying away from the edges of the envelope. For landings the way to do that is flying the POH recommended speeds
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: U.K.
Age: 46
Posts: 3,112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Now think about what you've been posting and how you seem to think landing works.
For a start. NEVER quote from a news article. How about reading Mr Cessna's book. Not a bad read really and shows up much of the utter balls that you hear throughout club houses and in many of the flying comics available in WH Smiths.
You aren't creating debate, you are showing how little you know. I don't need to have a debate about how to land a Cessna, nor do people like Chuck, Ed, SN3G etc.etc.
That isn't arrogance. It comes from having taught hundreds upon hundreds of people to do it, whilst being able to do it fairly well ourselves in all sorts of weather conditions aswell as understanding why we do what we do, not just quoting some other tosh you've heard in the bar.
As for your definition of situational awareness...............fark me.
Tut tutting! I'm thinking you should be going back to your school for a full refund!
Look. Not all of here are students, some of us have more than 50 hours in our log books. Chuck probably stopped counting at 20,000 hrs and has been teaching for longer than you've probably been alive for. I could tell you to nearest 200 hrs what's in mine but no closer and as for the others I've mentioned, they all know what they are talking about, so do yourself a favour. Sit down with a copy of the POH, think about how an aircraft actually flies and don't pontificate on stuff you currently have no idea about.
Using a wobbly bike as an analogy for an aircraft at low speed..............You're making me want to utter profanities!
For a start. NEVER quote from a news article. How about reading Mr Cessna's book. Not a bad read really and shows up much of the utter balls that you hear throughout club houses and in many of the flying comics available in WH Smiths.
You aren't creating debate, you are showing how little you know. I don't need to have a debate about how to land a Cessna, nor do people like Chuck, Ed, SN3G etc.etc.
That isn't arrogance. It comes from having taught hundreds upon hundreds of people to do it, whilst being able to do it fairly well ourselves in all sorts of weather conditions aswell as understanding why we do what we do, not just quoting some other tosh you've heard in the bar.
As for your definition of situational awareness...............fark me.
Tut tutting! I'm thinking you should be going back to your school for a full refund!
Look. Not all of here are students, some of us have more than 50 hours in our log books. Chuck probably stopped counting at 20,000 hrs and has been teaching for longer than you've probably been alive for. I could tell you to nearest 200 hrs what's in mine but no closer and as for the others I've mentioned, they all know what they are talking about, so do yourself a favour. Sit down with a copy of the POH, think about how an aircraft actually flies and don't pontificate on stuff you currently have no idea about.
Using a wobbly bike as an analogy for an aircraft at low speed..............You're making me want to utter profanities!
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: London
Age: 71
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
can offer you a quote from the C152 AFE pilots guide
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: London
Age: 71
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Finally control of the aircraft is what makes safe landings. Pilots crash on landings because they were incapable of keeping the aircraft within its safe flight envelope.
For landings the way to do that is flying the POH recommended speeds
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: U.K.
Age: 46
Posts: 3,112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
http://www.langleyflyingschool.com/P...Procedures.pdf
Read page 10.
If you have been trained to fly and think in the way you are coming across here, then I would suggest that you go down to the monkey house at your local zoo and ask them how to land a Cessna.
Read page 10.
Quote:
people posting here generally are trying to assure that the best prevailing wisdom, which is based upon vast experience
Do you think it a good idea to change the way you have been trained to fly and which matches ones own albeit limited experience just because of the opinions of a bunch of hacks on an internet forum.
people posting here generally are trying to assure that the best prevailing wisdom, which is based upon vast experience
Do you think it a good idea to change the way you have been trained to fly and which matches ones own albeit limited experience just because of the opinions of a bunch of hacks on an internet forum.
I think you'll find that to be at an angle that will ensure the mainwheels touch first, and for the aircraft to still be descending, you'll want to be a lot slower than 70 knots 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: London
Age: 71
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You aren't creating debate, you are showing how little you know. I don't need to have a debate about how to land a Cessna, nor do people like Chuck, Ed, SN3G etc.etc.
That isn't arrogance. It comes from having taught hundreds upon hundreds of people to do it, whilst being able to do it fairly well ourselves in all sorts of weather conditions aswell as understanding why we do what we do, not just quoting some other tosh you've heard in the bar.
That isn't arrogance. It comes from having taught hundreds upon hundreds of people to do it, whilst being able to do it fairly well ourselves in all sorts of weather conditions aswell as understanding why we do what we do, not just quoting some other tosh you've heard in the bar.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: London
Age: 71
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
think you'll find that to be at an angle that will ensure the mainwheels touch first, and for the aircraft to still be descending, you'll want to be a lot slower than 70 knots
You said:
If you're hearing the stall warner 'as you gently touch' the runway, you're not on the approach, are you? You're a few inches either side of 'landed'!
I shan't echo the many, very well written points about how many aircraft have a lot of control even deep within the stall...but they're all correct. Try it!
"Quote:
If you got a stall warning horn as you gently touched, you probably had a
great landing too "
My instructor would kill you if she heard you say this!
What control can you possibly have of your aircraft if it is at stall speed? What would happen if there was a problem and you had to apply full power?
Every instructor has their own pet beliefs about what are the absolutely essential rules to flying. They often contradict each other. Come skills test day one is pleasantly surprised that the examiner is a lot more relaxed and will remind you of what really IS important.
If you got a stall warning horn as you gently touched, you probably had a
great landing too "
My instructor would kill you if she heard you say this!
What control can you possibly have of your aircraft if it is at stall speed? What would happen if there was a problem and you had to apply full power?
Every instructor has their own pet beliefs about what are the absolutely essential rules to flying. They often contradict each other. Come skills test day one is pleasantly surprised that the examiner is a lot more relaxed and will remind you of what really IS important.
I shan't echo the many, very well written points about how many aircraft have a lot of control even deep within the stall...but they're all correct. Try it!
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: London
Age: 71
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Using a wobbly bike as an analogy for an aircraft at low speed..............You're making me want to utter profanities!
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: U.K.
Age: 46
Posts: 3,112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have read your posts and simply you are coming across as someone who doesn't know what they are talking about, but is too arrogant to admit it. You are digging yourself into a deeper and deeper hole.
You are arguing with people who do this for a living and have been around this business for a long time. Landing a Cessna is one of the easier things in flying. Explaining how it happens is also not rocket science.
Just because you drive a car, does that mean you'll take Schumacher to one side and explain how he's doing something wrong? No. Why not? Because you wouldn't be adding anything to his knowledge would you?
Well, talking guff about landing Cessnas is about the same thing.
Think about what others have typed here and take a deep breath.
When this was posted, you should have taken the advice offered.
You are arguing with people who do this for a living and have been around this business for a long time. Landing a Cessna is one of the easier things in flying. Explaining how it happens is also not rocket science.
Just because you drive a car, does that mean you'll take Schumacher to one side and explain how he's doing something wrong? No. Why not? Because you wouldn't be adding anything to his knowledge would you?
Well, talking guff about landing Cessnas is about the same thing.
Think about what others have typed here and take a deep breath.
When this was posted, you should have taken the advice offered.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHoul52
My instructor would kill you if she heard you say this!
What control can you possibly have of your aircraft if it is at stall speed? What would happen if there was a problem and you had to apply full power?
Before the verbal beatings start, I want you to go away for 30 minutes, maybe lie down in a darkened room, and then come back and explain why that posting of yours was a quintessential expression of the purest form of utter bollocks.
Or we can do the shouty-shouty thing now. Up to you.
Originally Posted by DavidHoul52
My instructor would kill you if she heard you say this!
What control can you possibly have of your aircraft if it is at stall speed? What would happen if there was a problem and you had to apply full power?
Before the verbal beatings start, I want you to go away for 30 minutes, maybe lie down in a darkened room, and then come back and explain why that posting of yours was a quintessential expression of the purest form of utter bollocks.
Or we can do the shouty-shouty thing now. Up to you.