Overhead Joins

[Rabbs]

Hi,

Low hour ppl here with a question, ideally I'd like an instructor or ATC to answer as I have flown with several long hour ppls and have gotten different answers when discussing.

When approaching for an overhead join should you always position yourself initially as per http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/srg_gad...oin_poster.pdf (90 degrees to the runway and turn runway heading deadside)

or is it acceptable to join deadside (eg if you are tracking 180 degrees and deadside/runway heading is 180) and then go into the cct (descend deadside, crosswind and into downwind)

The debate started when I turned left of an airfield (at about 10 miles out) so I could position myself for the initial approach for the overhead join. The pilot I was with told me that if I was already lined up on the deadside leg just go straight on and call overhead when abeam the runway deadside... (His view was why make it more difficult if you are already on the runway heading)

Thoughts...

[jxk]

My interpretation.

Do as it says: 'join overhead' 2000' qfe, determine circuit direction (windsock or signals square), if circuit is left-hand (default) make your turns to left vice- versa right-hand, descend on dead-side to circuit height, cross the end of the runway (cross-wind ie other end to threshold) at circuit height, downwind, base-leg, finals.
It doesn't matter which direction you join from you're going to ascertain circuit direct etc whilst over-head. This is the theoretical standard over-head join, however a lot of airfields have their own instructions depending on local restrictions in which case you need to consult the AIP or Pooleys etc..

[omcaree]

I agree with jxk.
Starting your join from 2000ft overhead means that you'll be flying a similar path to all other aircraft who might also be joining. So assuming you don't bump into anybody in the overhead, you shouldn't be conflicting with anyone through the rest of your join.
If the standard proceedure at an airfield is to join overhead, and you decide to join on the deadside, chances are you wont be descending in the same profile as people joining overhead (because you'll have started at a different point). So in this scenario there is every possibility that someone joining from overhead could descend into you when you are deadside (if you were sufficiently low not to be seen).

[VictorGolf]

I can see the point of an overhead join at an unmanned field or one without radio but I don't buy it for a manned field. If you ask for joining and traffic info and there isn't any of the latter why annoy the neighbours by spending longer in the circuit if you can join on final, base or downwind without upsetting any other traffic?

[Whiskey Kilo Wanderer]

I’m not normally a fan of overhead joins, but there have been a couple of occasions recently (Henham Park & Project Propeller at Old Warden) where it has been useful in sorting out arriving traffic of radically differing airspeeds.

The usual caveat of checking Pooleys / VFR Guide / AIP and PPR applies. This will get you the information and probably the reason for any specific procedure. In the case of Headcorn you will be advised in no uncertain terms NOT to join over head…

Safe Flying,
Richard W.

[Julian]

Rabbs,

Its always worth getting an early radio call into your destination, that will give you all the info you need to plan your approach. I fly out of Donny and by doing this I usually get a straight in which reduces the workload vastly.

J.

[cirruscrystal]

it is published at most airfields i fly into, for a standard overhead join. I dont like it personally when people decide to do their own thing and 'just slot in behind' and come streaking accross the pattern at circuit height, makes things dangerous when people dont follow procedures i think.

Unless on test i wouldnt worry about specific direction to join into deadside.

[robin]

Some airfields do ask you to join overhead for particular reasons. At those fields, you won't be popular is you don't.

Similarly, there are other airfields, especially those with parachuting, who don't wan't overhead joins under any circumstances.

All airfields have their little quirks, NIMBYs obstructions etc, so i you are not sure, phone them and ask before you launch - all part of preflight preparation

[18greens]

I think overhead joins are fab (second only to the RIAB), especially where non radio traffic is involved or if you are sorting out an approach to a scary new field.

But one thing I must add. When is the CAA going to come up with a readable version of the OH join pattern. The coloured fields add loads of 'colour' but you can't read the words without a magnifying glass and (Rabbs you are right to ask) the poster does not make it clear but you CAN make an OH join from ANY direction - thats the idea.

[PompeyPaul]

Technically...

The debate started when I turned left of an airfield (at about 10 miles out) so I could position myself for the initial approach for the overhead join. The pilot I was with told me that if I was already lined up on the deadside leg just go straight on and call overhead when abeam the runway deadside... (His view was why make it more difficult if you are already on the runway heading)

This was discussed on here in some detail a while back. If you approach the airfield deadside, and descend before reaching the airfield then what you are doing is technically a cross wind join. In practice I've found there's nothing wrong with that, and at airfields that require an overhead join they seem happy with the cross wind join when approaching deadside. This is the way I tend to fly it.

If you absolutely have to perform an overhead join, and you are arriving from deadside then you should overfly the airfield, at circuit join height (usually 2000ft QFE) and do a 180 when you get to the live side, to go back to the deadside where you perform your descent to circuit height.

However, in the world of flying this is all open to interpretation and one man's "normal aviation practice" can be another's "I've never seen airmanship like it". As long as you stay safe that's the important thing.

[Whopity]

The original purpose of the overhead join was to allow either non-radio aircraft, or aircraft arriving at a non radio airfield, to overfly the airfield at a safe height, to observe the signal square, determine the runway in use and circuit direction, and then descend into the circuit pattern. To do this you must arrive in the overhead at 2000 ft; descending on the Deadside as you approach is as stated, a crosswind join.

Whilst I find most pilots understand the pattern, the choice of speeds and power settings leaves something to be desired; many glide down at glide speed (best suited for range!) often leaving the ATZ; only to rejoin on an unannounced crosswind leg. A few weeks ago I joined overhead at an airfield where I heard two other aircraft report Deadside Descending ahead of me; I was crossing the centreline and could see no other aircraft, I called, descended and was well established Downwind before the other two aircraft appeared on a crosswind leg about a mile behind me. Nobody watching would have had a clue what they were doing.

[jxk]

Why?

Why does this simple over-head join procedure seem so difficult? I suppose in this modern over controlled environment pilots need to be told what to do from t/o to landing.

[effortless]

Surely a deadside approach is a cross wind join. An overhead join is what it says on the tin.

[tonker]

When joining crosswind if you are crossing the end of the take off runway try and position your self so you can at least see it.

Just in case a Pitts takes off and decides to go vertical.

ps when turning Final call "final" not "finals". Stops ATC asking if you joined "downwinds"

[IO540]

The original purpose of the overhead join was to allow either non-radio aircraft, or aircraft arriving at a non radio airfield, to overfly the airfield at a safe height, to observe the signal square, determine the runway in use and circuit direction, and then descend into the circuit pattern

which dates back to WW1

The OHJ is dangerous because - ignoring for the moment the 'people' who insist on the OHJ even when there is no known traffic, just to wind up visiting pilots (a certain airfield in the Luton area being one well known example) - it gets invoked when there are too many planes inbound at the same time, which is precisely when you do NOT want to be heading for the same spot at the same altitude!

The OHJ is also used at ATC airfields when the ATCO cannot handle the incoming traffic so he just sends everybody into the overhead and people then have to take care of themselves. And one finds some people cheating. For example the other day I arrived in the overhead, only to hear a certain other plane which was way behind me call "overhead". He got what he wanted (the clearance to descend deadside) ahead of me as a result. I wasn't bothered (never would have thought of that trick myself, but then I am not paying a club hire rate) but it shows the system is far from foolproof; the first person to call 'overhead' is likely to get a descent clearance regardless of where he actually is.

[englishal]

Actually I can't remember the last time I did an OHJ Pretty much everyone I've come across recently seems to join by whatever is easiest for them - me included - and unless an airfield *specifically requests* an OHJ I'd rather joing on a base / downwind etc....

I agree the "deadside" or "crosswind" join, which is half an OHJ is useful if approaching from the deadside and I'd always do this, but wouldn't fanny about doing a proper OHJ which would require crossing the airfield twice and tons of messing around in the most dangerous bit of airspace. I'd do an OHJ if there is no person on the radio or the airfield is closed though unless someone else was on frequency to tell me the weather / prefered runway etc.......

[Cusco]

The US system of joining the downwind leg at 45 degrees has much to commend it.

Particularly if, in non- towered fields everyone is self - announcing on Unicom.

But of course the Brits could only come up with safetycom which lacks many of the brilliant features of Unicom and is half-baked enough to have many peeps refuse to use it.

Overhead joins give me the willies especially when people announce that they're overhead when they patently aren't.

Cusco.

[jxk]

G-VFWE at Keevil

Can quite remember when this was BUT the procedure was OHJ and non radio - some hundreds of aircraft all landed safely. Of course there were a few (idiots) who couldn't understand this procedure and just cut up the circuit.

[scooter boy]

I'm with Cusco and IO540 on this one.
The overhead join is for the twirly tash brigade flying slow non-radio aircraft using their monocled mark one eyeballs.

Too many aircraft in the same place at the same time can easily result and the US system of joining downwind on the 45 wins hands down as it is NOT open to misinterpretation and also allows for safe overtaking so people have less incentive to lie about their position (as IO experienced).

Aircraft are now too quick for this, having to lose 2000ft in the confines of the circuit can be difficult for those of us who fly aircraft with half decent aerodynamic qualities. The added dimension of having to descend deadside during the OHJ makes it less easy to see and you less visible to others - much easier if everyone arrives at the same height.

The OHJ is hazardous and should be scrapped.

SB

[eharding]

Originally Posted by Scooter Boy

I'm with Cusco and IO540 on this one.
The overhead join is for the twirly tash brigade flying slow non-radio aircraft using their monocled mark one eyeballs.

Ah....excellent. We haven't had a good OHJ punch-up for simply ages.

I'd counter with the proposal that any pilot who calls for the banning of the OHJ is clearly a habitual IFR-fondling agoraphobic, prone to panic attacks when required to look outside the aircraft, and who should be repeatedly smacked in the goolies with a Pooley's until they see the light of day (or faint from the inevitable panic attack).