TAF translation for a newbie....

[bern444]

There's a big difference between "3000 BKN006 PROB30 0710 0200 FG OVC000" and "3000 BKN006 PROB30 TEMPO 0710 0200 FG OVC000".

It took me a while to work through section by section to work out the difference, and I have the feeling I might not be the only one. A question we (a group from our club) always ask at exhibitions is - why not print it in English too? We know there are international standards and all that, and certainly if it has FG in it I won't be leaving home, but nevertheless the potential for getting it wrong when you can easily transpose two groups in a complex code seems very high.

We've put the question at several AeroExpos and other exhibitions now, and not had a good answer. I know there are decoder sites around the place, but they aren't the official word, and it seems to us it would be easly to have a computer decode alongside the TAF or METAR. NOAA seems to manage it automatically on their ftp site, so why can't we?

Bernie

[PompeyPaul]

why not print it in English too?

Because that would start to make flying accessable to all, and after spending £10k on a license I want to be special and able to decode those archaic runes.

Could you imagine if johnny public knew how to respond if fired at with a green flare, given a flare gun and a red and green charge in the cockpit ? There would be a bloody stampede.

[bookworm]

A question we (a group from our club) always ask at exhibitions is - why not print it in English too?

I think this case is actually a good example of why printing it in English is not the answer. It would be trivial to transcribe the symbol TEMPO into the word "temporarily". However the subtlety and difficulty is in the interpretation of the word, however written, which means "for periods not exceeding 1 hour duration in each instance, and not exceeding half of the period in aggregate". If you write that in full every time you end up with information that is so long it's impossible to digest. If you don't, you might as well write "TEMPO".

[batninth]

XL319

wx is always crap at LBA

Rubbish, I've lived here for over 20 years and I can recall three or four occassions when it has been fine . Actually I can recall a couple of times when it's been good (ie flyable) weather in Leeds but not up at the airfield further North.

I was up at Durham Tees Valley Airport the other day & one of the ATCOs said that they treat a PROB30 as "It might..." & a PROB40 as "It most likely will...". Not sure how much that was based on fact & how much was an interpretation. Anyone care to comment?

[whitehorse]

.......and don't forget that the wind direction is true not magnetic. For those of you who fly a little further a field, it makes quite a differance to the cross wind at the airport when considering landing/take-off. We don't all fly in areas with nearly zero variation. Ours can be up to nearly 60 degrees of variation.

[BackPacker]

......and don't forget that the wind direction is true not magnetic.

Wasn't it so that in METARs and TAFs the wind direction is true, while on the ATIS and whatever the TWR reports is magnetic, since runway headings are also magnetic?

After all, METARs and TAFs are used in flight planning, while you are still using true bearings and so forth. But in operating the flight you use magnetic headings so ATC gives the wind in magnetic too.

What about VOLMET?

[whitehorse]

Yes BP but it's usefull to remember when planning the flight, thats when you use the TAFs and METARS's. Volmets I'm sure are "true" .
WH

[Them thar hills]

the dreaded weather

Put more simply, if you can't see the windsock, it's raining.
If you can see the windsock it's going to rain !
I too was around Hebden Bridge helping to get the lights back on !
It was quite grimy in parts.

[Lasiorhinus]

If you get the winds in written form, TAFs, ARFORs, RSWTs, and so forth, the wind is given in degrees true.

If you get the winds in spoken form, ATIS, AWIS, Bloke in Tower, and so forth, the wind is given in degrees magnetic.

[bookworm]

If you get the winds in spoken form, ATIS, AWIS, Bloke in Tower, and so forth, the wind is given in degrees magnetic.

Not so generally. VOLMET is spoken and referenced to true north (verbatim METARs).

[bjornhall]

Because that would start to make flying accessable to all, and after spending £10k on a license I want to be special and able to decode those archaic runes.

Really tho', maybe that's not all that far off...? The type of short term, local and highly accurate (well... ) weather reports provided for free to pilots would be quite expensive if you wanted to order them from the met providers...

Ergo, the METAR/TAF codes are actually a form of encryption. Bet most PPL students would agree...

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Why can't they just give the weather in plain English?

Is modern technology not capable of something that simple?

[whitehorse]

"Why can't they just give the weather in plain English?"

Chuck and others, maybe its because the whole world does not speak English. First the problem with translating it and secondly what does it mean in that region? At least with TAFs and METARs there are definitions of what each group means, which are available, translated into the local language.
It just takes application, practice and clarifying what it means with an instructor/experienced pilot, until you get the hang of it.

On the other hand they seem to have dummed the TV weather down so I supose a print out of pretty pictures would be OK!

WH

[Sepp]

A little-known group that you may see will go something like

TX30/14Z TN20/04Z

That would be max temp expected 30degC at 1400utc, min 20 at 0400

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Chuck and others, maybe its because the whole world does not speak English.

Hmmmm...

.....I thought that English was the international language of aviation.

Oh well, I guess it's back to reading the weather in code.

[bern444]

Chuck - if you go to ftp://tgftp.nws.noaa.gov/data/observ...metar/decoded/ you'll find that a rather unimportant tiny little weather organisation called NOAA thinks it is possible to give out decoded METARs on an offical site. No TAFs as yet though.

B

[bern444]

Excellent - thank you, I'll add a link to my site.


...so, basically NOAA, a not insignifcant player in the weather forecasting world, can manage to translate that which the British Met Office says they can't do. And NOAA is free at the point of use. Mmmm.


Bernie

[bookworm]

Hmm.

Aviation Digital Data Service (ADDS)
Output produced by METARs form (1812 UTC 10 July 2008)
found at ADDS - METARs

METAR text: EGSS 101750Z 22018KT 9999 FEW035 18/11 Q1005
Conditions at: EGSS (STANSTED AIRPORT, GB) observed 1750 UTC 10 July 2008
Temperature: 18.0°C (64°F)
Dewpoint: 11.0°C (52°F) [RH = 64%]
Pressure (altimeter): 29.68 inches Hg (1005.0 mb)
Winds: from the SW (220 degrees) at 21 MPH (18 knots; 9.4 m/s)
Visibility: 6 or more miles (10+ km)
Ceiling: at least 12,000 feet AGL
Clouds: few clouds at 3500 feet AGL
Weather: no significant weather observed at this time

If it's so easy, why does this translator make a patently invalid claim about the ceiling?

[NeuterCane]

'Ceiling' is used in USA/Canada meaning lowest layer of 5 oktas or more.

[bern444]

Yes - something I hadn't quite grasped....the code which has to be a code because it's international, means different things in different countries.


Mmmmmm - again.

B