Light aircraft "could be bombs"
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Just for the record, Mr Opik (a PPL/IR besides being a bit of a clown) followed Lord Carlile as MP for Montgomeryshire; so one would hope they have a good working relationship, both being Lib Dems.
As well as flying privately, I working in Business Aviation. I've yet to see Alex Carlile at Farnborough seeing for himself the steps and lengths we go to to ensure that we have the strictest possible security we can. It's not simply a case of a few yellow jackets on the gate, it's a series of steps involving everyone in the organisation, we have direct contact with all sorts of Government agencies for any kind of concerns and I'm, frankly, worried that the Government's Terrorism Tzar doesn't seem to know this.
Just from the fact he's written means he doesn't know it....
As well as flying privately, I working in Business Aviation. I've yet to see Alex Carlile at Farnborough seeing for himself the steps and lengths we go to to ensure that we have the strictest possible security we can. It's not simply a case of a few yellow jackets on the gate, it's a series of steps involving everyone in the organisation, we have direct contact with all sorts of Government agencies for any kind of concerns and I'm, frankly, worried that the Government's Terrorism Tzar doesn't seem to know this.
Just from the fact he's written means he doesn't know it....
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It gets worse
M'lord Carlisle (not hereditary I note) has also echoed plods request for a 3000 strong unified Border Police Service.
I for one will be visiting Transair and purchasing several white shirts avec epaulettes. Then squeezing 2 x Four Gold Bars onto each sloping shoulder.
That should pull a bit of rank when the Rankers call
Sir George Cayley
M'lord Carlisle (not hereditary I note) has also echoed plods request for a 3000 strong unified Border Police Service.
I for one will be visiting Transair and purchasing several white shirts avec epaulettes. Then squeezing 2 x Four Gold Bars onto each sloping shoulder.
That should pull a bit of rank when the Rankers call
Sir George Cayley
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I sincerely hope that AOPA, the GA Alliance and all our representative bodies - including the CAA - will ensure that this half-*rsed piece of rubbish is filed where it deserves to be.
The thought of having to go through the same banal security checks at my local "airfield" when I go and do a bit of private flying as one is subjected to at major "airports" beggars belief.
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that well advertised spectre, "liquid explosives"
From AFP
"We did not want to kill or injure anyone," he told the court Monday.
"Something small enough to cause a large bang, maybe some smoke. Something that would be considered serious and credible, something to generate that mass media attention."
He added: "I never had any intention of murdering anyone or injuring anyone. At no stage did I ever even think of going on an airplane or causing an explosion there."
"Something small enough to cause a large bang, maybe some smoke. Something that would be considered serious and credible, something to generate that mass media attention."
He added: "I never had any intention of murdering anyone or injuring anyone. At no stage did I ever even think of going on an airplane or causing an explosion there."
Avoid imitations
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These overstated fears mean the terrorist is winning. The average private car can carry more than most light aircraft. Perhaps we should have checks on every car driver every time someone wants to drive one?
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Its nothing new and the report does state..
But no doubt this detracts from a good story about light aircraft raining down from the sky like Tora Tora Tora so the BBC neglected to include it in their report.
As stated, there is absolutely no intelligence that demonstrates attack using light aircraft, christ they could disguise themselves as a BBC news crew and infiltrate the Commons with news cameras packed full of explosives!! But thats just sensationalist 
J.
Shame there does not appear to be a 'comments' section on the bottom of the BBC page.
This has led to some well
thought out local policing plans, involving special branch and other police
offi cers working together and with local communities. There is real cooperation from pilots of all kinds of aircraft and owners/operators of airfields
of all sizes.
150. The business and private aviation sector continues to respond well
to such threat as terrorism presents to them. The operators of airfi elds to
which volume business and general aviation fly are well aware of terrorism
concerns.
thought out local policing plans, involving special branch and other police
offi cers working together and with local communities. There is real cooperation from pilots of all kinds of aircraft and owners/operators of airfields
of all sizes.
150. The business and private aviation sector continues to respond well
to such threat as terrorism presents to them. The operators of airfi elds to
which volume business and general aviation fly are well aware of terrorism
concerns.
As stated, there is absolutely no intelligence that demonstrates attack using light aircraft, christ they could disguise themselves as a BBC news crew and infiltrate the Commons with news cameras packed full of explosives!!
But thats just sensationalist J.
Shame there does not appear to be a 'comments' section on the bottom of the BBC page.
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There are people on this Planet who can't settle until everything is controlled by what they consider to be the "responsible Few". The terr threat is a gift from Allah for them.
I can't imagine there will be much resistance by the Police for the curtailment or tight control of General and Sport aviation. I remember many years ago at Manch, a group of rozzers (scuffs for you Scousers) being shown round the Tower (I'm not sure if they visited PATCRU as well) and being impressed by the blokes (and blokess) in the Approach room. The visitors were fascinated by the RADAR and the amount of traffic operating outside controlled airspace. They were truly mystified that nobody cared about what the traffic was and what it was doing. I could almost see the mental note taking. Something to do with Police mentality, I believe.
OK, entering into the spirit of fantasy and paranoia; how about, say, a flexwing microlight with a shaped charge IED in the nose? I'm sure any self respecting terr could knock together 100 lb weight of high impulse explosive with some light metal and foam plastic to direct its energy.
I can't imagine there will be much resistance by the Police for the curtailment or tight control of General and Sport aviation. I remember many years ago at Manch, a group of rozzers (scuffs for you Scousers) being shown round the Tower (I'm not sure if they visited PATCRU as well) and being impressed by the blokes (and blokess) in the Approach room. The visitors were fascinated by the RADAR and the amount of traffic operating outside controlled airspace. They were truly mystified that nobody cared about what the traffic was and what it was doing. I could almost see the mental note taking. Something to do with Police mentality, I believe.
OK, entering into the spirit of fantasy and paranoia; how about, say, a flexwing microlight with a shaped charge IED in the nose? I'm sure any self respecting terr could knock together 100 lb weight of high impulse explosive with some light metal and foam plastic to direct its energy.
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Dont forget the spectre of a dozen free fall suicide bombers lobbing out of a knackered caravan......or rocket propelled taliban roman candles underslung from footlaunched fan motors....
All ppls to become trained firearms officers as part of the course. problem solved.
Umm.....the last exploding outrage in the USA was ...I believe....an exploding bicycle in Times square?? Maybe I'm mistaken on this, but a fleet of exploding bicyles..especially if fitted with the panniers commonly available without any form of licence....would cause devastation in the average supermarket car park.
If you just want to have a go at folk, you could just nick a van and mow down a load of pedestrians on the pavement. Pick your route and plan the outrage carefully......just a sec.....isnt that what happens at the moment anyway?
Even the USA is not this paranoid.
All ppls to become trained firearms officers as part of the course. problem solved.
Umm.....the last exploding outrage in the USA was ...I believe....an exploding bicycle in Times square?? Maybe I'm mistaken on this, but a fleet of exploding bicyles..especially if fitted with the panniers commonly available without any form of licence....would cause devastation in the average supermarket car park.
If you just want to have a go at folk, you could just nick a van and mow down a load of pedestrians on the pavement. Pick your route and plan the outrage carefully......just a sec.....isnt that what happens at the moment anyway?
Even the USA is not this paranoid.
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Thread creep.
With sincere apologies - if any good soul has registered his a/c with the above reg- my will to check SRG's G-INFO has expired
This was one of the registrations that slipped through the CAA's 'decency Police' whereby you're not allowed to have obscene or even mildly rude registrations. They should review some of the helicopter reggies I see about (G-PIMP, G-FCKD etc etc)
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IMHO these funny registrations become a bit of a liability, after a few years.
Also I note most of them are very hard to pronounce. I would always go for a custom reg (the cost is peanuts) and my choice would always be picked to roll off the tongue very quickly, without ambiguity. Unfortunately a lot of other people play that game too so the obvious ones have been taken
I saw G-BOLX a few years ago.
It's a lot easier to get these (ones which are 'suggestive' to an English speaker) in non English speaking countries.
Also I note most of them are very hard to pronounce. I would always go for a custom reg (the cost is peanuts) and my choice would always be picked to roll off the tongue very quickly, without ambiguity. Unfortunately a lot of other people play that game too so the obvious ones have been taken
I saw G-BOLX a few years ago.
It's a lot easier to get these (ones which are 'suggestive' to an English speaker) in non English speaking countries.
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Why would osama waste his time with light aircraft - Heck, take 20 litres of petrol to the local night club and burn, baby burn...
You haven't seen it happen yet, but you probably will. As I said before, following 09/11, a third of the flight schools in the US went out of business. I was personally assigned to retrieve a heart the evening of the day it happened, and I had to watch the individual who was to receive the heart on the television, crying and telling the public and the media that he would die because the aircraft that was to go get his replacement heart wasn't allowed to fly. That was me, the one who was supposed to make that flight. One of thousands upon thousands of flights that didn't go.
For years after that time, I had to put locks around my propeller every time I walked away from the airplane, keep at least three disabling devices attached at all times, add devices to prevent the aircraft from flying, received frequent visits from the federal bureau of investigation, and had to obtain additional clearances and undergo additional scrutiny. Those of you who come from overseas to do training have some inkling of the hoops through which you must jump...all because a few individuals obtained a few airplanes and did damage.
Today, it doesn't matter how much damage is done. I'm a long time ag pilot, and fire pilot, among other things. In the years following 09/11, the public hysteria over "white dust" being dispensed by ag airplanes lead to multiple groundings of ag aircraft, prompting some to sell their operations and others to go out of business. We were prevented from flying on fires at times, as a result. No ag airplane was ever used for a terrorist act, but the effects remained. Had an ag airplane ever been used, one could safely discount agricultural aviation in the US. Over. Kaput. Done.
Same for several light airplanes being used. The amount of physical damage to be done? Minimal. The amount of psychological and economic damage? Inestimable. Massive, and potentially without end. Blow up a night club...that happens from time to time. Nobody closes all the night clubs. Blow up a truck, nobody is going to park all the trucks. Blow up a ship, there are plenty more ships. Blow up another airplane, and much of the aviation industry may not be able to recover from the fallout. In the general aviation sector this is especially true.
How many of you are instrument rated? Most private pilots are not. Never the less, the matter of requiring all light airplanes to fly under IFR was seriously debated following 09/11. Much as I love VFR flight and personal freedom, I'm not entirely against that, then or now. It's not entirely workable, but the concept was certainly discussed that anything deviating from an IFR plan would be considered a threat, and has been on many occasions in the US in some areas.
Even today, a light airplane violating the airspace around the nation's capitol in Washington DC is enough to stop the country's political machine, evacuate congress, and send enough firepower to vaporize a large city to intercept it. That's the kind of response even a light airplane gets today. So, you ask, why would a terrorist consider using a light airplane? Do you really have to ask that?
When Mattias Rust landed at the Kremlin with his Cessna 172, nobody in the Politburo was laughing. Nobody thought a Cessna 150 could have landed (crashed) on the Whitehouse lawn. But it happened. You might not take it seriously, but rest assured that the public does, and the body politic does, too. So long as that's the fuel of the legislation that decides your privilege to fly, you should take it just as seriously.
The lost life and damage done is irrelevant and really quite meaningless. The loss of freedom and the public panic that follows in it's wake is what a terrorist act is all about. Take it seriously.
Whilst we all agree that 9/11 was a terrible event in history and not one easily forgotten, it's also worth remembering that In the UK until recently we had been living for about 40 years with a much more serious and lets face it far more successful terrorist orgonisation accross the Irish sea, one which incidentaly the Americans sympathised with and helped 'fund raise!'
Edited to add: I'm not disputing what your are saying Sns3guppy, just that we Brits really dont need much education with regards dealing with terrorism!
Edited to add: I'm not disputing what your are saying Sns3guppy, just that we Brits really dont need much education with regards dealing with terrorism!
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If anything legislative as to happen in light of this report, it would be another nail in the coffin of democracy and freedom. The irony of all of this is that the democratic culture that we celebrate is not being eroded by terrorism but by the police state eager to justify its existence and purpose fuelled by the ignorance and assumed self importance of the media.
In reality the threat from the IRA was far more intrusive to our everyday lives yet life went on and survived. Sure there were legislative measures brought in to deal with it but none as Orwellian as we see now. When they wanted to hurt the British public, they knew how to do it without raising suspicion.
I also wonder whether the same senior police officers also want to see UAV's used for policing purposes and want to remove some of the operating constraints such as GA. They are of course all stakeholders in the Mode S debate and its not difficult to see why.
Whilst I don't enjoy watching politicians grandstanding for attention, I might support the wider point that David Davies is trying to make in his by-election. Enough is enough.
In reality the threat from the IRA was far more intrusive to our everyday lives yet life went on and survived. Sure there were legislative measures brought in to deal with it but none as Orwellian as we see now. When they wanted to hurt the British public, they knew how to do it without raising suspicion.
I also wonder whether the same senior police officers also want to see UAV's used for policing purposes and want to remove some of the operating constraints such as GA. They are of course all stakeholders in the Mode S debate and its not difficult to see why.
Whilst I don't enjoy watching politicians grandstanding for attention, I might support the wider point that David Davies is trying to make in his by-election. Enough is enough.
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I suppose light aircraft could be used as flying bombs; I suspect the likelihood is right up there with senior policemen being recruited as suicide bombers. Possible, just not terribly likely....
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Well, given that plod couldn't stop a policeman out on bail for murder of his wife, then going out and killing the witness (his mother-in-law) and himself.....
Life is a risk, but our leaders are totally risk-averse. They cannot conceive that things can go wrong.
Let's take an example - the British Grand Prix is stopped because a press helicopter crashes on the grandstand at Club corner. A tragic accident
Or a helicopter flies into the grandstand at Club corner - a terrorist outrage
Same loss of life, but either could happen.
Life is a risk, but our leaders are totally risk-averse. They cannot conceive that things can go wrong.
Let's take an example - the British Grand Prix is stopped because a press helicopter crashes on the grandstand at Club corner. A tragic accident
Or a helicopter flies into the grandstand at Club corner - a terrorist outrage
Same loss of life, but either could happen.
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It's also pretty damn difficult to get your hands on a light jet, and then load it up with a huge bomb without it being noticed.
One can make the same argument for chartered transport jets. You can lease a 747 if you want to. That is a much bigger security issue. But the 9/11 lot didn't do that; they went to the much greater trouble of hijacking them.
Ground all transport jets?
Elsewhere, it has been suggested that the "light jet" danger which is all over today's front pages is coming out of the airlines who are getting a lot of competition from light jets. You can get say 5 company execs 1000nm for slightly over £10k (return) which compares awfully well with flying them conventionally, and that is before one costs in the huge hassle of using an airline. The light jet business must be very seriously hurting the 1st class ticket business.
One can make the same argument for chartered transport jets. You can lease a 747 if you want to. That is a much bigger security issue. But the 9/11 lot didn't do that; they went to the much greater trouble of hijacking them.
Ground all transport jets?
Elsewhere, it has been suggested that the "light jet" danger which is all over today's front pages is coming out of the airlines who are getting a lot of competition from light jets. You can get say 5 company execs 1000nm for slightly over £10k (return) which compares awfully well with flying them conventionally, and that is before one costs in the huge hassle of using an airline. The light jet business must be very seriously hurting the 1st class ticket business.
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Both sides of a coin
1 - skywalker - In terms of mainland casualties inflicted, long term disruption, or 'terrorising effect' the IRA was not in the same league as the 9/11 attacks. For much of the time they sought to create low grade annoyance to inspire political change. 9/11 was much more about maximising body count. Furthermore, with a deliverable political objective you could also see a way out of the Irish mess. Much less clear in the current situation.
2 - SNS3 - While the devastation to GA in the aftermath of 9/11 was clear, the US authorities have generally adjusted their position to a more sensible one. When an Islamo nutter used a training aircraft in a suicide attack in Florida, (which demonstrated how poor light GA is at this kind of attack) there doesn't seem to have been any significant change in policy. We need to worry about things that really could deliver another 'spectacular' not about hypothetical risks that some media intern dreams up.
1 - skywalker - In terms of mainland casualties inflicted, long term disruption, or 'terrorising effect' the IRA was not in the same league as the 9/11 attacks. For much of the time they sought to create low grade annoyance to inspire political change. 9/11 was much more about maximising body count. Furthermore, with a deliverable political objective you could also see a way out of the Irish mess. Much less clear in the current situation.
2 - SNS3 - While the devastation to GA in the aftermath of 9/11 was clear, the US authorities have generally adjusted their position to a more sensible one. When an Islamo nutter used a training aircraft in a suicide attack in Florida, (which demonstrated how poor light GA is at this kind of attack) there doesn't seem to have been any significant change in policy. We need to worry about things that really could deliver another 'spectacular' not about hypothetical risks that some media intern dreams up.