Are the Halcyon Days of Private Flying Over?
Thread Starter
Are the Halcyon Days of Private Flying Over?
I recall asking my father in the late 50s how much it cost to fly - his reply "A bob a minute" - that was £3 per hour. In those days on a nice Sunday afternoon there would be circa 12 (yes thats twelve) a/c in the circuit (incidentally ALL non radio!).
Given the astronomical rise in the fuel prices and the punitive taxes imposed the HM "Government" and the ever increasing amount of bureaucratic nonsense what do you think the future of Private Flying and General Aviation will be in the UK?
Given the astronomical rise in the fuel prices and the punitive taxes imposed the HM "Government" and the ever increasing amount of bureaucratic nonsense what do you think the future of Private Flying and General Aviation will be in the UK?
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what do you think the future of Private Flying and General Aviation will be in the UK?
When I'm flying, I can't help but notice all the farm strips that have sprung up in the past 15 years or so. Plenty of literally 'grass-roots' flying there, too. You can still take off, fly around and land without having to seek or recieve permission from any official or even talk to anyone on the radio. I don't hear that anyone is planning on changing this. You can't have much more freedom than that, surely!
Don't want to fly SEP? Why, just look at the myriad new VLA types, not to say the very capable microlights, in fact the edges around all these types is blurring.
Of course, there will always be people who seem to take a perverse satisfaction in being doom-sayers who enjoy nothing more than saying
'there, I told you so!' Just don't be one of those, retain a positive outlook and we'll be flying for just as long as we want to.
Cheers,
TheOddOne
Thread Starter
The OddOne, thanks for the reply.
Really, is that true?
Even with the recent sudden rises in fuel costs, flying an SEP is relatively cheaper than it was when I started 26 years ago.
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I am sure flying is no more expensive than it was say 30 years ago.
Fuel, adjusted for inflation, costs no more, and I bet you that the same goes for general operating costs.
The circumstances have of course changed massively. These days most people in GA are looked at as anoraks (and it isn't far wrong) so I guess that while "I am a private pilot" might have been a good line at a 1970s party, it is less advisable today (if you are trying to pull)
The machinery has hardly changed. I have a photo I took of my local airport from 1979. The only change is the perimeter fence. The planes are exactly the same. Back then many must have been nearly new; now they are decrepit old heaps of junk. This suggests there was a lot more money around back then - how many people do you see buying new Cessnas or Pipers (or anything else new) today?
There are significant regulatory dangers to "utility" flying i.e. anything under IFR. There is pressure from airlines who would universally like to totally kill off GA. Not necessarily kill it off directly, but kill it off through equipment requirements which cannot be met in a GA plane. I don't think this will happen, because of ICAO obligations and pressure from pilots.
But I think purely-VFR "sports" flying, without a purpose, outside CAS, has a very secure future, and will be served by a vast choice of Rotax engined plastic buckets.
As for "halcyon days", those ended about 1946.
Fuel, adjusted for inflation, costs no more, and I bet you that the same goes for general operating costs.
The circumstances have of course changed massively. These days most people in GA are looked at as anoraks (and it isn't far wrong) so I guess that while "I am a private pilot" might have been a good line at a 1970s party, it is less advisable today (if you are trying to pull)
The machinery has hardly changed. I have a photo I took of my local airport from 1979. The only change is the perimeter fence. The planes are exactly the same. Back then many must have been nearly new; now they are decrepit old heaps of junk. This suggests there was a lot more money around back then - how many people do you see buying new Cessnas or Pipers (or anything else new) today?
There are significant regulatory dangers to "utility" flying i.e. anything under IFR. There is pressure from airlines who would universally like to totally kill off GA. Not necessarily kill it off directly, but kill it off through equipment requirements which cannot be met in a GA plane. I don't think this will happen, because of ICAO obligations and pressure from pilots.
But I think purely-VFR "sports" flying, without a purpose, outside CAS, has a very secure future, and will be served by a vast choice of Rotax engined plastic buckets.
As for "halcyon days", those ended about 1946.
Last edited by IO540; 22nd Jun 2008 at 20:46.
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If flying cost £3 an hr in 1950, what was the average wage then?
I was at that time still at school but in '55 I got £5 a week working in a garage, So flying at 60% of a 15yr old's weeks pay per hr, how does that compare today? I think it's a lot cheaper today.
I was at that time still at school but in '55 I got £5 a week working in a garage, So flying at 60% of a 15yr old's weeks pay per hr, how does that compare today? I think it's a lot cheaper today.
A little less conversation,
a little more aviation...
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Originally Posted by Dan Dare
You can still fly Noddy for a bob a minute (5 pence a minute for you youngsters)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...DoPijAKgvtC7CQ
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Really, is that true?
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Bose, I do hope you weren't the inspiration for this!
Harvey and Jane arrive at Harvey's parents house, and he introduces them to his girlfriend. They begin to get on well, when Harvey complains that he is hungry, and wants "bitty". His Mother initially refuses, saying that "bitty" will spoil his appetite, but eventually gives in. She unbuttons her blouse, and Harvey crawls on her lap and begins breastfeeding.
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“Don't want to fly SEP? Why, just look at the myriad new VLA types”
I would just like to politely point out that a VLA is an SEP (or both are group A if you prefer)
If you want to fly VFR on a budget then the LAA/BMAA is a very strong option. In the 70’s there were fewer than 1000 permit aircraft flying. Now the number is above 6000 and another 2500 ish are under construction. This is a huge change compared to the 70’s. Current c of a aircraft (SEP’s) are around 7000 (excluding CAA administered permits). Approximately 50% of the aircraft at my strip are of designs which did not exist in the 80’s let alone the 70’s do the hardware has changed significantly.
Rod1
I would just like to politely point out that a VLA is an SEP (or both are group A if you prefer)
If you want to fly VFR on a budget then the LAA/BMAA is a very strong option. In the 70’s there were fewer than 1000 permit aircraft flying. Now the number is above 6000 and another 2500 ish are under construction. This is a huge change compared to the 70’s. Current c of a aircraft (SEP’s) are around 7000 (excluding CAA administered permits). Approximately 50% of the aircraft at my strip are of designs which did not exist in the 80’s let alone the 70’s do the hardware has changed significantly.
Rod1
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Has the hardware actually changed? Apart from the Rotax which wasn't around back then.
The fibreglass technology is pretty old.
The low weight has been achieved by cutting corners everywhere, from the safe business of stripping out all possible sound/thermal insulation, to the more dubious practice of very flimsy control linkages. A lot of the ultralights are "hang glider construction" standard, with a cockpit to keep the bulk of the rain out.
To get down to say 750kg, you don't get something for nothing. Short of building every bit of the whole ship out of carbon/kevlar (which would make it cost £200k+) .
The fibreglass technology is pretty old.
The low weight has been achieved by cutting corners everywhere, from the safe business of stripping out all possible sound/thermal insulation, to the more dubious practice of very flimsy control linkages. A lot of the ultralights are "hang glider construction" standard, with a cockpit to keep the bulk of the rain out.
To get down to say 750kg, you don't get something for nothing. Short of building every bit of the whole ship out of carbon/kevlar (which would make it cost £200k+) .
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Well here is my view.
We all know the economy is fragile.
For most flying is a leisure activity - and these are usually the first to suffer.
In addition, many other leisure providers are able to reduce their fees to encourage participation. For example, you will hardly find a golf course now that charges a joining fee. However, most aviation providers are already living close to the margin so there is very little scope for reducing their rates any further.
Whilst some the changes proposed by EASA may reduce the regulatory burden, regulatory changes in any industry produce uncertainty and an initial increase in costs.
In many parts of Europe GA is almost dead. For example Calais has two aero clubs - both have ceased to trade. Their is only one active club on the airfield which operates microlights and even then "active" is a relative word.
For these reasons and others in the short term I would conclude the future is not bright.
We all know the economy is fragile.
For most flying is a leisure activity - and these are usually the first to suffer.
In addition, many other leisure providers are able to reduce their fees to encourage participation. For example, you will hardly find a golf course now that charges a joining fee. However, most aviation providers are already living close to the margin so there is very little scope for reducing their rates any further.
Whilst some the changes proposed by EASA may reduce the regulatory burden, regulatory changes in any industry produce uncertainty and an initial increase in costs.
In many parts of Europe GA is almost dead. For example Calais has two aero clubs - both have ceased to trade. Their is only one active club on the airfield which operates microlights and even then "active" is a relative word.
For these reasons and others in the short term I would conclude the future is not bright.