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Please don't make me learn to fly in a Cesspit!

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Please don't make me learn to fly in a Cesspit!

Old 20th Jun 2008, 19:13
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Grayfly

You and me both…

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Old 20th Jun 2008, 20:31
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I find the C152 a very difficult plane to land CORRECTLY.. that's why it's called 'a good trainer'...
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Old 20th Jun 2008, 21:31
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I must admit I'm quite surprised with the overwhelming emphasis on flying the easiest possible plane so you can get the licence as soon as possible.
Mmmmm. I must have read different posts to the ones you read. I thought there was some well balanced and considered advice in many of the posts.

Re-reading your original post, I see that you have a silver C and hundreds of hours. It just so happens that I do fly gliders, so have an inkling what you are talking about. I would be interested to know why you haven't gone on to say a gold C, maybe a diamond or two?

Now don't get me wrong, I am not accusing you of lack of ability, but usually people get bored with local soaring after a while, and want to do a few longer flights. The silver C is a pretty basic qualification in any glider with a glide angle better than 30 to 1. Most club gliders (which I assume you fly, as you don't mention being a private owner) are well capable of 300 k closed circuits. My forty year old libelle certainly is as is its somewhat older owner. And beat up it is not, even though I might be.

There are plenty of good motor gliders around, though you may be surprised at how different to gliders the motor glider experience is. Why not have a go at the motor glider to SEP route?

You say
(Although I appreciate the characteristics of a powered taildragger and not the same as a glider)
You may be startled when you actually try one to find out just how different.

Anyway, how about getting off the computer and go do that licence.
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Old 20th Jun 2008, 21:34
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Beechnut, can we swap rides?
I have a pretty yellow super cub, goes along not too fast but you should see it in and out of a short field!
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Old 20th Jun 2008, 21:43
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I had several lessons a few years back in a Cessna 172R. I wasn't that good at flying it and found it fairly difficult to fly accurately. I have recently started lessons again flying in a Robin HR2160i. I think it is probably a combination of the aircraft, recieving much better quality tuition from my new flying club and me being slightly older; but I am getting on far better now.

I am due to be doing my skills test some time in September now weather permitting. But any how, I'd recommend having a go in a Robin as they are a nice trainer to fly about in. I think even when I have completed my training I shall continue to fly them for a while
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Old 20th Jun 2008, 23:20
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Originally Posted by Piper.Classique
Now don't get me wrong, I am not accusing you of lack of ability, but usually people get bored with local soaring after a while, and want to do a few longer flights. The silver C is a pretty basic qualification in any glider with a glide angle better than 30 to 1. Most club gliders (which I assume you fly, as you don't mention being a private owner) are well capable of 300 k closed circuits. My forty year old libelle certainly is as is its somewhat older owner. And beat up it is not, even though I might be.
I've never been much of a badgehunter. I did several 50km and 100km cross countries, several 3000ft height gains and a couple of five hour flights, mostly in the club K8, before actually declaring them and getting the silver. And I only did that because of peer pressure from my syndicate partners who were keen to get our insurance costs down! I've done a 9000ft climb in wave over the Pyranees (Jaca) which was about 800ft short of Gold height (That'll teach me for not getting a good low point before starting!!). I've been out to Jaca every year for the past 6 years and I only know one occasion whilst I've been there when the weather has been good enough for someone to claim a diamond. The club glider (Pegase) I hired that day didn't have oxygen so a climb to 15000ft was out of the question for me. I guess I'm just unlucky.

Anyhow, I'm leaving this thread now. I just came on here to ask a simple question about learning to fly on DA40's and taildraggers so that when I go to the the airfield this weekend I'll have some idea of which flying school I want to sign up to. What I seem to have recieved in response is four pages of people going on about how great Cessna's are, people telling me that I'm looking for excuses not to fly, that I have no talent but a big ego, I have no respect for anyone who flies a Cessna etc. etc. all because I dared to say I would rather fly a modern trainer than a tatty outdated one.

I'll repeat what I said before, it's no wonder private flying is in decline in this country.
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Old 20th Jun 2008, 23:27
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I learnt to fly on a Liberty XL (previously a few hours on the UAS Bulldog) and they were very unforgiving especially on landings (loads of ground effect), however it had a mean engine and cruised at 120kts. I now in a C152 group and they are exactly what people have said, easy to fly, cheap, unforgiving and because of the high wing zero (more or less) ground effect.

I'm pleased i flew the Liberty as it gave me some good experience early on in my aviation career.
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Old 21st Jun 2008, 02:42
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JBGA, My best advice would be to learn to fly in the aircraft you just bought and paid for, You'll be so pleased with your choice, whatever it is!

After flying about 70 types over 30 years, I'm in the 21st year of proudly owning the same (now 33 year old) Cessna 150. It has never let me down in 2800 hours of flying, and as the price of gas increases, I'm even happier to own it!

Aviation will reward you with the return of all the enthusiasm you put in. Seems like you might have a tough time!
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Old 21st Jun 2008, 02:59
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I havent read the entire thread as I can't be bothered But I hate Cessna's too....they are like sitting in a gold fish bowl and the high wing has been a killer more than once.

Anyway......You know what I'd do if I were you? I'd go to the USA and convert to an FAA PPL. The FAA will recognise your glider hours towards the PPL hours, and you could in theory get an FAA PPL in about 10 hours (you require 10 hrs in a SEP aeroplane). Once you have that, you can fly G or N reg in the UK or if you wanted, you could convert to JAA / EASA or whatever.....

That is what I'd do anyway...
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Old 21st Jun 2008, 03:25
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The FAA will recognise your glider hours towards the PPL hours, and you could in theory get an FAA PPL in about 10 hours...
If I'm not mistaken, it is more like a minimum of 30 hours to add on the Airplane, Single Engine Land rating onto a glider rating. If you are already a power pilot, you can earn your glider rating with 10 additional hours. That was how I did it.

Search for e-cfr, pick title 14 from the drop down list, part 61, then the applicable rule is § 61.109 Aeronautical experience.

-- IFMU
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Old 21st Jun 2008, 04:06
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I know the high wing has killed some birds. But otherwise, I'm certain that more pilots have killed high wings, than high wings killed pilots...
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Old 21st Jun 2008, 07:17
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Hehe,

Nicely put mate.

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Old 21st Jun 2008, 09:45
  #73 (permalink)  
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Oh dear god

What a thread.

I suppose that A320s result in less skilled pilots compared to DC3s?

If you can land a trike competently, then I fail to see how taildragger skills will make you better at landing a trike, as they are redundant.

If you fly a tail dragger, then you need some extra finesse and technique.

Each has its place in aviation.

Sometimes, some of the tail dragger community on here comes across as being quite arrogant and smug.

And as for the 150/152, not my favourite aeroplane, but very few people can fly one of those to the hioghest standards, they a good little trainer IMHO and have given a lot of people a start in aviation.
 
Old 21st Jun 2008, 10:04
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This thread is getting tedious!

The original poster either hasn't read the posts that give him good advice, or deliberately ignors them to keep on (successfully) trolling!

If he/she has a Silver C they can obviously handle an aircraft. Therefore all they really need is to learn engine management, radio, instrument flying ect. This they can do in any trainer ... be it tailwheel, nosewheel, modern or vintage. As has been pointed out it's their money and their choice.

So again I say ... just get on with it and stop blaming anybody, aircraft or anything else but yourself for not getting your PPL before now

SS
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Old 21st Jun 2008, 10:10
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Going back a bit, a lot of this kind of debate comes from many/most people not knowing why they are learning to fly.

IF you knew why you want to fly (e.g. aerobatics, going places, long range European touring, flying over Beachy Head on sunny Sundays only, etc) then you would go along to a school which will teach you in the appropriate type, and you won't waste much time afterwards converting to the eventual type.

Even better, buy the plane you want to fly and do the PPL in it. I wish I had bought the TB20 and did my PPL in it. Would have saved me £XXXX flying around in self fly hire junk heaps.

Unfortunately this is not the way the UK training system works - it tends to work around FTOs and the types they have parked outside. If one could have freelance instructors, customers would have more flexibility.
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Old 21st Jun 2008, 11:16
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Cesspits. Yeah, terrible aircraft - hate 'em.

Yesterday I was forced to fly a 30 year old one over five hundred miles, cruising between 170-180 kt, with four heavy adults and a load of luggage ... spent all the time wishing I was flying a DA-40 ...

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Old 21st Jun 2008, 12:15
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Sarcasm perhaps, not sure...

In thirty years, will we be writing about still in productive service 30 year old DA-40s? Will they have lasted? It's a certainty that there will still be Cessnas flying with 60 years experience.... Like it or leave it.......

If you want to train for float flying, it won't be in a "new" plane... IO540 makes a very good point.

In Canada, our tourists are still flown commercially in well maintained 60 and 70 year old aircraft. I'm certain that some of the posters here secretly yearn to fly those Beavers and Norsemans. The new Caravans aren't pushing them out of the way very quickly.
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Old 22nd Jun 2008, 22:28
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If you can land a trike competently, then I fail to see how taildragger skills will make you better at landing a trike, as they are redundant.

If you fly a tail dragger, then you need some extra finesse and technique.
Fundamental lack of appreciation of what makes a good landing there. A conventional gear ensures you fly a fully held-off (or accurate wheeler) landing, else the aeroplane will object, quite violenty if you ignore it.

With a tri-gear, you don't have to, so most tri-gear pilots don't. Unless they also fly conventional gear, in which case they will.

That's how tailwheel experience makes you a better trike lander. Of course, a tri gear-only pilot could make a correctly held-off landing, and some do... but observation at any GA field will demonstrate that most don't.

SSD
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Old 22nd Jun 2008, 23:11
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This thread is quite relevant to me at this time as I have just been signed of on the tailwheel, it is not easy like the 152, some of the landings I did in the 152 in my Emeraude would have killed me. I do not yet consider myself a tailwheel pilot, I think I have a lot of practice to do yet.
I wish I had done the NPPL on a tailwheel as I would have learned to land anything rather than learn to land a "nosey". Bit like driving an automatic & then buying a 1930s with a crash gear box, no power steering, cable brakes & wind up windows! Much better to do it the other way round.
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Old 23rd Jun 2008, 00:45
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Yesterday I was forced to fly a 30 year old one over five hundred miles, cruising between 170-180 kt, with four heavy adults and a load of luggage ... spent all the time wishing I was flying a DA-40 ...
Clearly wasn't a C172 then.

The T182T's I fly and the T206H won't even cruise at that speed, and despite flying very well and reasonably quick they are like sitting in a goldfish bowl. A cessna with RG looks like a crane fly to me I'd rather have a TB20.

Each to their own though. I don't choose to fly a Cessna myself.
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