Old Sarum Flying Club- Gone????

[Contacttower]

I feel very, very sorry for the poor students who had placed tens of thousands on account in anticipation of cheaper flying and the dream of a PPL only to be shafted royally by crap management who have fleeced innocent people..... This practice of taking money on account into flying clubs and it just going inot the pot with the normal operating cash flow account MUST be stopped.

I could not agree more; I at one point had a lot of money in my OSFC account - luckily not much at the moment - but to be honest I always thought "this could never happen to Old Sarum".

[HappyFran]

Also down at Old Sarum today,
Frequent Flyer deposit disappeared
Down in Bournemouth they have a seperate client account...hopefully that is safe

Escrow gets my vote.

Oh well onto the credit card company to see how they squeem and weedle there way out of there liability

[frontlefthamster]

I feel very, very sorry for the poor students who had placed tens of thousands on account in anticipation of cheaper flying and the dream of a PPL only to be shafted royally by crap management who have fleeced innocent people..... This practice of taking money on account into flying clubs and it just going inot the pot with the normal operating cash flow account MUST be stopped.

A good trawl here might reveal similar things from over a decade ago at Leavesden (Hi, Simon... It'll catch up with you in the end!), and very nearby at Blackbushe (Tony, how's life?).

caveat emptor (trademark of UK PLC)

[Cusco]

Is Geoff Prout still there?

Cusco.

[Contacttower]

Is Geoff Prout still there?

He was there the last time I was at Old Sarum about three weeks ago.

[Say again s l o w l y]

I feel very, very sorry for the poor students who had placed tens of thousands on account in anticipation of cheaper flying and the dream of a PPL only to be shafted royally by crap management who have fleeced innocent people..... This practice of taking money on account into flying clubs and it just going inot the pot with the normal operating cash flow account MUST be stopped.

One of my "rules" is that as soon as a club starts to offer big discounts for putting money into an account with them, the place is in trouble.

NEVER, EVER pay upfront and if you do, do it via credit card so that it is them doing the chasing not you!

Losing Old Sarum FC is a real shame, but hopefully a new and even better venture can take over.

[JP1]

There is also the issue of taking membership payment and 5~6 weeks later declaring insolvency. The situation was clearly known a few weeks back.

If all members renewed (600 approx so the club states) that's nearly £60k. Individually it's a small amount but collectively it is very different.

Anyway I hope the paid members of staff get what is owed and that they find suitable employment quickly.

[Contacttower]

as the liability's incurred are more than anyone could ever make out of flying training... they exceed £50,000 by all accounts and could be twice that amount......

So I suppose that means all the planes will have to be sold off?

[JP1]

Are any actual aircraft owned by OSFC. The ones I flew weren't.

The owners(s) form a limited company and lease the aircraft to OSFC

[Contacttower]

Are any actual aircraft owned by OSFC. The ones I flew weren't.

I was under the impression that it varied from aircraft to aircraft but most of them are registered in the name of HAIMOSS LTD; don't know how that impacts on the situation though.

[Jetscream 32]

having spoken to the liquidator at length - he is not instructed to act on behalf of the parent company or any other company vehicle owned by the management of OSFC, however depending on the collective desire of the incumbents who have lost so much in deposits for flying etc there is a collective judgement that can be taken against Leslie and co in that they were issuing cheques a fortnight ago that bounced and yet still taking money in advance off of people yesterday - which when you knowing trade insolvently the directors can be become personally liable for - now bearing in mind she owns the aircraft albeit through a different company then a stat demand could i think be issued for the return of deposits as these were an advance to the company for services never supplied...

bottom line is OSFC has no assets, chatels and is not worth a light....in financial terms

[IO540]

There is also the issue of taking membership payment and 5~6 weeks later declaring insolvency. The situation was clearly known a few weeks back.

The Director can be personally liable in that kind of situation.

[DBo]

Who is the Liquidator?

Jetscream

Is there any chance you could PM me with the name and contact details fof the liquidator - nobody is answering the phone at OS

My wife has completed her PPL training and was booked to take her skills test on Sunday. We're keen to retrieve her training records and record of exam passes from the Liquidator.

Thanks

Dave

[Mike Cross]

I feel very, very sorry for the poor students who had placed tens of thousands on account in anticipation of cheaper flying and the dream of a PPL only to be shafted royally by crap management who have fleeced innocent people..... This practice of taking money on account into flying clubs and it just going inot the pot with the normal operating cash flow account MUST be stopped.

The best way of stopping it would be for people to be more sensible with their money. I take it you wouldn't be happy to place "tens of thousands on account" with any other trader, why should you feel it sensible to do it with a flying school? At the end of the day the motivation is self interest. "I'll give you a discount if you pay up front" should ring alarm bells but all too often people allow greed to cloud their judgement. Harsh perhaps, but true nonetheless.

[hugh flung_dung]

I am one of the more "senior" self-employed instructors that was with OSFC, having been there for more than 12 years.

• I have been assured that all student records are secure and can confirm that records of examination passes are also secure.
• I am told that nothing that might be regarded as an OSFC/Megastream "asset" (including student records) can be touched until the legal wheels have turned.
• There are a large number of rumours floating around, to the best of my knowledge these are generally incorrect.
• I am optimistic that flying training and aircraft hire will soon return to Old Sarum airfield.
• Old Sarum airfield continues unchanged. It's still a great place to visit, and to buy fuel for both your aircraft and your stomache. For a short time the circuit will be slightly less busy than usual so why not take advantage of the hiatus and pay John, Angus and the staff a visit.

Please don't ask about what went wrong, money issues, or the legal processes because I don't have any information so won't be able to reply. Also, I respectfully suggest that speculation about the collapse is going to be about as useful as speculating about the causes of an accident before the AAIB report is available.

Finally, if anyone has a short term need for a part-time instructor and examiner for MEPL, SEPL, aerobatics, advanced handling, night, IMC or tailwheel ...

HFD

[IO540]

I am told that nothing that might be regarded as an OSFC/Megastream "asset" (including student records) can be touched until the legal wheels have turned.

[my emphasis]

Surely this is totally wrong, unless the student has done the relevant training and ground exams and not paid for it, which is practically unheard of in the PPL training business.

It's not illegal in the sense that the police won't get involved in civil matters but student records are not as asset of the school.

[Jetscream 32]

osfc is the company in difficulty not megastream - mega cannot be legally touched.... unless you issue a stat demand to the director of said company then assets become part of the estate......

why on earth would the SRC's be removed from the premise's if there was no intent to reconvene at an airfield slightly west of Sarum? contact the studes who did not have money on account and then say...." mmm sorry about that everyone... but we are over here now and have your record cards if you would like to continue training with us over here you can start from where you left off? - oh you dont want to learn with us anymore....!im sorry im not sure where your SRC is -- suggest you go to the local flying club nearest you undertake an assesment flight with a FI and sign an affidavit as to your lessons versus your logbook and carry on from there.....!!!

Yes HFD flying training will recommence that is for sure, instructors can instruct anywhere, same aircraft? maybe!! - doubt it... all people that put money on account given credit note to the value or refund....... mmmm pigs flying.... moon!! - doubt it.....

Lots of people in business make mistakes - knowingly fraudulently allowing people to pay for services you have no way of ever supplying is DISGUSTING!!! and harmful to the industry at time when we need good news not CRAP like this.....! running up bills in excess of 20k for fuel issue cheques that then bounce is trading insolvently and also accountable.......

Make an example thats what i say....! maybe then people will think twice about the way they conduct their flying training business and ethics

[Say again s l o w l y]

Student records have nothing to do with the administrators, they are the resonsibility of whoever was the custodian of the records.

They are not ASSETS of any description and if a student wants to transfer their records in the next day, then it is down to who ever was in charge (usually the CFI) to get them sent off to the new school with no delay.

The police might not be interested, but the chaps in the belgrano certainly will be.

[aviate1138]

This was in an EGLS hangar recently......... sigh....



UKGA source Wed 28th May 08

[BRL]

Nice, what is it?