GA Landing Technique...
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 2,517
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Your method seems entirely logical, and I like the idea of the high speed runs.
I have to apologize Piper C.... for allowing logic to overcome the monkey see monkey do mentality so common in the flight training industry.
When doing cross over training from nose wheel to tail wheel the biggest challenge is teaching the student to " CONTROL " yaw on the ground by use of the rudder and brakes.
That is why I will not take them flying until they are comfortable with controlling the thing on the ground.
Logic to me dictates that teaching them how to fly and land the thing is useless if they lose control and wreck it in the bit between flying and coming to a stop on the ground.
Anyhow I am constantly having to defend my methods of teaching and my only defense is it works.
I have to apologize Piper C.... for allowing logic to overcome the monkey see monkey do mentality so common in the flight training industry.
When doing cross over training from nose wheel to tail wheel the biggest challenge is teaching the student to " CONTROL " yaw on the ground by use of the rudder and brakes.
That is why I will not take them flying until they are comfortable with controlling the thing on the ground.
Logic to me dictates that teaching them how to fly and land the thing is useless if they lose control and wreck it in the bit between flying and coming to a stop on the ground.
Anyhow I am constantly having to defend my methods of teaching and my only defense is it works.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Under the horizon
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lew, the best piece of landing advice i was ever given was 'Don't let the plane land' Just keep edging the yoke back until it runs out of puff and gently touches down on the mains. Works everytime (UNless ur coming in fast)
Oli
)Oli
Oli wrote
IMO this will work on a tricycle UC even if you are coming in fast. Of course, you might use more runway than there is available......
Lew, the best piece of landing advice i was ever given was 'Don't let the plane land' Just keep edging the yoke back until it runs out of puff and gently touches down on the mains. Works everytime (UNless ur coming in fast)
)
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 2,517
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lew, the best piece of landing advice i was ever given was 'Don't let the plane land' Just keep edging the yoke back until it runs out of puff and gently touches down on the mains. Works everytime
Be careful, because if you can't judge how high you are off the runway running out of puff can drive the gear right up through the wings.
Be careful, because if you can't judge how high you are off the runway running out of puff can drive the gear right up through the wings.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Euroland
Age: 53
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My humble opinion.
For reference I have logged about 7000 landings on several types (gliders, mooney, cessna 152, 172, 182, Morane, Mooney, Marchetti SF260, Chipmunk, TB20, TB30, Swearingen Merlin III, T-37, T-38, Alpha-jet, Piper cup, Pilatus PC-6) and am instructor since 1998.
It troubles me that an instructor states that he never lands on one wheel in crosswinds, the basic crosswind landing technique (that is certainly used on a C152) dictates that you land wing low into the wind. The logical result will be that the tire on that side will touch first
I have never touched with the nosewheel as second, I allways touch one main wheel then the other main wheel and then the nose wheel.
The T38 was the only aircraft I flew where you where not allowed to apply the wing low method, due to a rudder input resulting in roll at high angle of attack.
Now for kicking the rudder, that is just an expression: The thruth is that you never kick the rudder, and you never yank the stick, you should give controlled inputs (the inputs an instructor gives when taking over the aircraft control during wrong landin of a student might look like kicking or yanking but are in fact controlled inputs)
About the flare, did you ever hear of incremental flare? This means that the flare itself is not one continious nose up movement but in fact consists of several small nose up movements as speed decreases to stay at a constant distance above the surface, ideally about 30 cm.
As someone said before, you can not learn to land from reading, but a good understanding of the technique helps, the rest comes with practise.
Greetings, Bart
For reference I have logged about 7000 landings on several types (gliders, mooney, cessna 152, 172, 182, Morane, Mooney, Marchetti SF260, Chipmunk, TB20, TB30, Swearingen Merlin III, T-37, T-38, Alpha-jet, Piper cup, Pilatus PC-6) and am instructor since 1998.
It troubles me that an instructor states that he never lands on one wheel in crosswinds, the basic crosswind landing technique (that is certainly used on a C152) dictates that you land wing low into the wind. The logical result will be that the tire on that side will touch first
I have never touched with the nosewheel as second, I allways touch one main wheel then the other main wheel and then the nose wheel.
The T38 was the only aircraft I flew where you where not allowed to apply the wing low method, due to a rudder input resulting in roll at high angle of attack.
Now for kicking the rudder, that is just an expression: The thruth is that you never kick the rudder, and you never yank the stick, you should give controlled inputs (the inputs an instructor gives when taking over the aircraft control during wrong landin of a student might look like kicking or yanking but are in fact controlled inputs)
About the flare, did you ever hear of incremental flare? This means that the flare itself is not one continious nose up movement but in fact consists of several small nose up movements as speed decreases to stay at a constant distance above the surface, ideally about 30 cm.
As someone said before, you can not learn to land from reading, but a good understanding of the technique helps, the rest comes with practise.
Greetings, Bart
I have never touched with the nosewheel as second, I allways touch one main wheel then the other main wheel and then the nose wheel.
The T38 was the only aircraft I flew where you where not allowed to apply the wing low method, due to a rudder input resulting in roll at high angle of attack.[
There are a couple of other aircraft that are a pain in a crosswind.
The SF25 super falke, which is a TMG, also has a large induced roll and in any case with an 18m or so span and teeny tiny outrigger wheels not a lot of ground clearance. As the crab technique also results in an induced roll and a tendency to drop the nose, it can be a handful in a stiff crosswind.
I used to fly a DH 85 Leopard Moth belonging to my then boyfriend, which as soon as the tail came down on landing became a bitch to keep straight. Great into wind on grass, but a cow in a crosswind on tarmac. Got a super cub now, less charisma but a practical aircraft.
(seem to be a lot of animals in this post.....
)I don't know how many landings I have done, can we count the bounces as two or three?
Putting on my tug pilot hat here, it has to be a fair few....Yes, I know about incremental flare. Given enough increments, it becomes a smooth one....It's just an extension of "oops, a bit high here, pause in the backward movement of the stick to let the aircraft settle, now continue the hold-off"
Currently flying a Rans Coyote, much nicer to land wing down in a xwind, again due to the rolling tendency with firm rudder input. I am informed most three axis microlights have the same tendency, perhaps someone with more microlight experience will let me know if this is the case?
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Euroland
Age: 53
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not sure I follow you on the T38, surely the induced roll due to the rudder input would make a forward slip (wing down) approach more controllable as the rudder input happens as you set up the aircraft on final, rather than using a large correction in the roundout. But I don't know the type.
.If you fly close to stall in this aircraft, then bring the stick aft and subsequently give full rudder, it will start making rolls at sthe speed of say an aileron roll in a C152. For this reason the rudder system was constructed in a way that when the gear is down full rudder would give a much smaller rudder deflection and use of rudder for crosswind landing was not allowed.
I don't know how many landings I have done
Bart
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Oop North, UK
Posts: 3,076
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I used to fly a DH 85 Leopard Moth belonging to my then boyfriend, which as soon as the tail came down on landing became a bitch to keep straight. Great into wind on grass, but a cow in a crosswind on tarmac.
Foxmoth said
Oh, I don't have a lot of time in it.....And I had only just got my PPL at the time, so maybe it just seemed hard to me. But I remember us having to have wing strut helpers to taxi at Calais once.....
I also have a lot of time in the dH85
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 2,517
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I looked it up on google earth and don't recall having ever been there...we flew all over France but I guess I missed your airport.
Did you know or know of Franklin Deveaux?
Did you know or know of Franklin Deveaux?
