PPL - Questions to ask potential schools
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PPL - Questions to ask potential schools
Hi,
I'm looking at obtaining my PPL and going to visit a few schools. I'd be grateful for any advice and particular questions I should ask, eg:
1. What is the current instructor/student ratio?
2. What is the aircraft/student ratio?
3. PPL passes in last year?
4. Whats included in price - course material, licence issue, skill test fee etc?
5. What do blocks of training time include - flight time, block to block?
6. How much ground study is included and what facilities are provided?
Cheers,
Oko.
I'm looking at obtaining my PPL and going to visit a few schools. I'd be grateful for any advice and particular questions I should ask, eg:
1. What is the current instructor/student ratio?
2. What is the aircraft/student ratio?
3. PPL passes in last year?
4. Whats included in price - course material, licence issue, skill test fee etc?
5. What do blocks of training time include - flight time, block to block?
6. How much ground study is included and what facilities are provided?
Cheers,
Oko.
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1. What is the average number of hours to the skills test at your school?
2. Describe the way you track students progress / how is the course structured from flight lesson to flight lesson / can I see the lesson plan?
3. What are the chances of flying with just one instructor almost all of the time (except stage checks)?
4. How many aircraft do you have of one type / what are the chances of flying just one aircraft type during my course / how is maintenance organized so that "my" plane is available when I need it?
5. Are your instructors hour builders or career/freelance dedicated instructors?
6. After I have my PPL, what other courses/challenges can you offer me. Tailwheel, aerobatics, night, IMC, IR, ME, CPL?
7. After I have my PPL, what are the rules with regards to aircraft hire (minimum hours, overnight stays, ...) and what are the rules on currency/check flights?
8. Do I need to pay upfront, and what if I don't?
2. Describe the way you track students progress / how is the course structured from flight lesson to flight lesson / can I see the lesson plan?
3. What are the chances of flying with just one instructor almost all of the time (except stage checks)?
4. How many aircraft do you have of one type / what are the chances of flying just one aircraft type during my course / how is maintenance organized so that "my" plane is available when I need it?
5. Are your instructors hour builders or career/freelance dedicated instructors?
6. After I have my PPL, what other courses/challenges can you offer me. Tailwheel, aerobatics, night, IMC, IR, ME, CPL?
7. After I have my PPL, what are the rules with regards to aircraft hire (minimum hours, overnight stays, ...) and what are the rules on currency/check flights?
8. Do I need to pay upfront, and what if I don't?
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How long have you been in business?
Are you training more or less pilots than a few years ago?
What is your plan for your fleet? (ie is it going to be replaced ½ way through my training)
What is the average age of the fleet
Are you about to go bust (not directly, obviously)
Rod1
Are you training more or less pilots than a few years ago?
What is your plan for your fleet? (ie is it going to be replaced ½ way through my training)
What is the average age of the fleet
Are you about to go bust (not directly, obviously)
Rod1
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Be clear on what their lesson cancellation policy is.
A friend of mine was "banned" from making further bookings after he had to cancel some lessons again (after reinstating them) due to some unexpected and unfortunate personal circumstances.
All because the ops manager got in a huff about arranging, then re-arranging instructors. On both occasions advance notice had been given of at least 3 days.
Actually, to be more incisive, make sure you know who runs the school on a day-day basis and what their general approach is. Reasonable, or are they a mini-fuhrer?
The school in question is near London btw, and is otherwise very good, just let down by a very unfortunate "operations manager".
Just wander in and say you would like some information. If you get a snotty response, just do a 180. There are a lot of jumped up sh1tes in UK aviation, and they're simply not worth entertaining when you're spending your hard-earned cash.
A friend of mine was "banned" from making further bookings after he had to cancel some lessons again (after reinstating them) due to some unexpected and unfortunate personal circumstances.
All because the ops manager got in a huff about arranging, then re-arranging instructors. On both occasions advance notice had been given of at least 3 days.
Actually, to be more incisive, make sure you know who runs the school on a day-day basis and what their general approach is. Reasonable, or are they a mini-fuhrer?
The school in question is near London btw, and is otherwise very good, just let down by a very unfortunate "operations manager".
Just wander in and say you would like some information. If you get a snotty response, just do a 180. There are a lot of jumped up sh1tes in UK aviation, and they're simply not worth entertaining when you're spending your hard-earned cash.
Last edited by XX621; 22nd May 2008 at 14:57.
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Credit Cards
If you are paying upfront for 10 or so lessons (cheaper) it is worth ensuring that they do not charge a credit card surcharge.
As a business owner who happily lets everyone pay by credit card (including AMEX) with no surcharge, I believe those that charge for paying by credit crad (and hence get legal protection on fees paid in advance) should be avoided as money grabbing shysters.
After all, if they charge you just for paying, what else are they going to charge you for? Parking?
As a business owner who happily lets everyone pay by credit card (including AMEX) with no surcharge, I believe those that charge for paying by credit crad (and hence get legal protection on fees paid in advance) should be avoided as money grabbing shysters.
After all, if they charge you just for paying, what else are they going to charge you for? Parking?
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- How they charge - Hobbs, tach, block time or any other measure in between. Can make a huge difference.
- Cancellation policy - both yours and theirs
- maintenance schedule - will 'your' a/c go out of service after you've done 10 hours in it?
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Meeting all of the instructors is an absolute must. Talk to as many of them as possible and you will soon see who is there to teach people to fly, and who is just building hours waiting for an airline to snap them up.
I was foolish, and didn't ask enough questions. I only flew at weekends, so my PPL took over a year and about 8 instructors.
Sticking with the same aircraft is an absolute must. I flew the PA-28 consistantly, then turned up one week only to find i'd been booked out in a robin. In the middle of nav training. I turned around and went home.
I was foolish, and didn't ask enough questions. I only flew at weekends, so my PPL took over a year and about 8 instructors.
Sticking with the same aircraft is an absolute must. I flew the PA-28 consistantly, then turned up one week only to find i'd been booked out in a robin. In the middle of nav training. I turned around and went home.
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Not sure what the regulations are in the UK, but in some countries, certain maneuvers such as spins are no longer required and actively discouraged. I personally think knowing how to get into trouble, and how to get out of it, should be a basic skill all pilots should have. Kind of like learning to slide a car.
The other thing that comes to mind is find out how they charge pre- and post- flight briefings. In the little flying club I was at, we'd sit and chat before and after each flight over a cuppa. Technically, there's a fee but I never had to pay. A few of the more professional flying schools around here would happily start a timer and bill you for it though.
The other thing that comes to mind is find out how they charge pre- and post- flight briefings. In the little flying club I was at, we'd sit and chat before and after each flight over a cuppa. Technically, there's a fee but I never had to pay. A few of the more professional flying schools around here would happily start a timer and bill you for it though.
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bit of a late response but this is a subject close to my heart - the poster who said there are a lot of jumped up ****es - never said a truer word - there are many schools run by hobbyists who may offer cheap rates but their goal is not your goal. the most important question to ask is - Is you instructor paid by the flying hour? most schools schedule 2 hours for a 1 hour slot -this allows take up of slack/overrun and should allow for pre and post briefing. All too often the briefing is cut out altogether
In my experience - both getting myself trained and pushing through friends and nearest and dearest I would emphatically say you have less than a 50:50 chance of finding a good 'teaching' set up in the UK- the smaller schools are often run by a hobbyist proprietor (I know one who is more interested in chocolate bars and model planes:-) and very few who have the courtesy to greet you well when you walk in the door) with instructors on flying time only. The bigger schools are plagued by young 'hours builders' who are inadequately managed and rarely teach well.
I've seen far better teaching aboad - full of care and passion for the student which I have come across only infrequently in the UK
just think also instructing is exactly that - issuing instructions
teaching is understanding how people learn and adapting the scenario accordingly so they understand for themselves
IMHO UK training is appalling and is in desperate need of some business standards or audit.
In my experience - both getting myself trained and pushing through friends and nearest and dearest I would emphatically say you have less than a 50:50 chance of finding a good 'teaching' set up in the UK- the smaller schools are often run by a hobbyist proprietor (I know one who is more interested in chocolate bars and model planes:-) and very few who have the courtesy to greet you well when you walk in the door) with instructors on flying time only. The bigger schools are plagued by young 'hours builders' who are inadequately managed and rarely teach well.
I've seen far better teaching aboad - full of care and passion for the student which I have come across only infrequently in the UK
just think also instructing is exactly that - issuing instructions
teaching is understanding how people learn and adapting the scenario accordingly so they understand for themselves
IMHO UK training is appalling and is in desperate need of some business standards or audit.
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Briefs
I would ask about the briefings you will get before and after your lesson.
I have flown with 3 or 4 instructors over the last few months and one of them gives minimal feedback at the end.
At the end of the lesson you need to know what areas you need to work on. If you flew really well, you need to be told that too,
I have flown with 3 or 4 instructors over the last few months and one of them gives minimal feedback at the end.
At the end of the lesson you need to know what areas you need to work on. If you flew really well, you need to be told that too,
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Sales
Ultimately these schools are sales people - they could tell you what you want to hear - My advice is try a school and couple of different instuctors. You should soon learn if it feels right.
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Qu. for training school
1. Prices - make sure it includes all the landing fees in the rates (would be expensive otherwise when doing circuits).
2. Same aircraft: not only same type but actually the same aircraft or just a few. I had 10 different PA28s when I did my PPL - had to adapt every lesson to different radios, some with sprung controls, diffferent Vx/Vy, some with ASI with MPH/Kts others with Kts only, different avionics [esp. adds to the work when doing some radio nav], some avionics 'known not great on this aircraft' [e.g. AH, DI drift] but 'good' on others. Not a problem now but not what you want when learning.
3. Instructor availability - key (or being able to book in far enough in advance, with extra lessons because you will always lose a fair proportion to weather).
However, I would say the most important thing is to have a good instructor who you get on with, who you can stick with. (How you find their teaching you can only know by flying with them at least once/a few times.)
2. Same aircraft: not only same type but actually the same aircraft or just a few. I had 10 different PA28s when I did my PPL - had to adapt every lesson to different radios, some with sprung controls, diffferent Vx/Vy, some with ASI with MPH/Kts others with Kts only, different avionics [esp. adds to the work when doing some radio nav], some avionics 'known not great on this aircraft' [e.g. AH, DI drift] but 'good' on others. Not a problem now but not what you want when learning.
3. Instructor availability - key (or being able to book in far enough in advance, with extra lessons because you will always lose a fair proportion to weather).
However, I would say the most important thing is to have a good instructor who you get on with, who you can stick with. (How you find their teaching you can only know by flying with them at least once/a few times.)
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Glad I came across this thread as I'm looking to ask a Flight school abroad a couple of questions. I've not read a bad word about them on this forum or the US forum but I'm taking precessions as I'll be over 4,000 miles from home for 4 to 5 weeks.
From the posts above I've come up with these;
PPL Statistics
Price
Aircraft
Instructors
... Feel free to add more
From the posts above I've come up with these;
PPL Statistics
- How many PPL passes have you had in the last year?
- How much ground study is included and what facilities are provided?
- What is the average number of hours to the skills test at your school?
- Describe the way you track students progress / how is the course structured from flight lesson to flight lesson / can I see the lesson plan?
- How long on average does the PPL course last? (I’ve seen many US schools quoting just 21 days for a PPL course).
Price
- What’s included in the price - course material, licence issue, skill test fee, landing fees etc?
- Do I need to pay upfront?
- Can I pay by credit card? If so is there a surcharge?
- What is your lesson cancellation policy?
- How do you charge? (Hobbs, tach, block time or other?)
Aircraft
- What is the aircraft/student ratio?
- What are the chances of flying just one aircraft ‘type’ during my course?
- What are the chances of flying the same aircraft throughout my course? i.e. sticking to the same frame?
- How is maintenance organised so that "my" plane is available when I need it?
- What is your plan for your fleet? (i.e. is it going to be replaced half-way through my training)
Instructors
- What is the current instructor/student ratio?
- What are the chances of flying with just one instructor almost all of the time?
- Are your instructors hour builders or career/freelance dedicated instructors?
- Are your instructor paid by the flying hour?
- Will I be receiving briefings/debriefings throughout the course?
- What is the instructor availability?
... Feel free to add more
