NATS website
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Joined: Jan 2006
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From: london
NATS website
After a lot of too-ing and fro-ing between various software suppliers and the NATS helpline, someone at NATS has finally 'fessed-up that the new online flight planning service website won't work with Apple Mac's.
Does this strike anyone else as a bit odd?
Does this strike anyone else as a bit odd?
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 676
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From: london
I routinely use the French system, OLIVIA, for notams and flight planning - and it's really a paragon of simplicity; why couldn't we have a similar system, given that there was a proven system within EASA land which works? Instead, NATS have gone out and come up with something unnecessarily complex and difficult (impossible if you have a Mac) to use! I thought EASA was meant to put an end to this sort of stupidity.
Very, very disappointing...
Very, very disappointing...
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: UK
Article in The Guardian today about NOTAM data not being available in a simple electronic form:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...ta.aeronautics
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...ta.aeronautics
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Savannah GA & Portsmouth UK
Try mugging up on this.
Joint effort by Eurocontrol and FAA to produce it. At the moment ICAO contracting states are required to produce data in the format laid down by ICAO. There's nothing to stop commercial providers from producing their own versions of the data if they want. The fact that they currently don't possibly indicates that they think the market is not yet there. The producers of software for the cockpit gizmos could produce data files to depict the stuff if they chose to. It's not economically viable which is why it's not done.
This may change once AIXM becomes the standard way for AIS's worldwide to exchange data but that's still a fair way off.
Joint effort by Eurocontrol and FAA to produce it. At the moment ICAO contracting states are required to produce data in the format laid down by ICAO. There's nothing to stop commercial providers from producing their own versions of the data if they want. The fact that they currently don't possibly indicates that they think the market is not yet there. The producers of software for the cockpit gizmos could produce data files to depict the stuff if they chose to. It's not economically viable which is why it's not done.
This may change once AIXM becomes the standard way for AIS's worldwide to exchange data but that's still a fair way off.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 121
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From: UK
Guys,
If there is a problem tell them about it. The more people that complain the more chance you will have of getting it changed.
I had huge issues when it first came in, our airfield got the blame for people getting the wrong adressee's on the flight plan, When they come from a different place everytime how do we control it. We had a snotty email saying 'please ensure your customers send stuff to the right place, we have redirected it, dont do it again'
I was not best pleased with that so sent a snotty email back, 30 seconds later get a call from engineers saying they didnt like my tone, so they had no choice but to listen to my hightend tone and a few well placed words about what they could do with the system and where was the consultation. They ended up sending us an apology as i was on the radio at the same time and they were just going on and on about how perfect the system was.
Nats say they consulted the airfields, what was the result?
I now have a rough idea of how to use it but instead of using one book to code the flight plans, the airport manager has had to go through all the major AIPs for the european countries and create his own manual. Not a pleasant thing to do.
DBB
Awaiting the onslaught
If there is a problem tell them about it. The more people that complain the more chance you will have of getting it changed.
I had huge issues when it first came in, our airfield got the blame for people getting the wrong adressee's on the flight plan, When they come from a different place everytime how do we control it. We had a snotty email saying 'please ensure your customers send stuff to the right place, we have redirected it, dont do it again'
I was not best pleased with that so sent a snotty email back, 30 seconds later get a call from engineers saying they didnt like my tone, so they had no choice but to listen to my hightend tone and a few well placed words about what they could do with the system and where was the consultation. They ended up sending us an apology as i was on the radio at the same time and they were just going on and on about how perfect the system was.
Nats say they consulted the airfields, what was the result?
I now have a rough idea of how to use it but instead of using one book to code the flight plans, the airport manager has had to go through all the major AIPs for the european countries and create his own manual. Not a pleasant thing to do.
DBB
Awaiting the onslaught
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
From: UK,Twighlight Zone
NATS website
After a lot of too-ing and fro-ing between various software suppliers and the NATS helpline, someone at NATS has finally 'fessed-up that the new online flight planning service website won't work with Apple Mac's.
Does this strike anyone else as a bit odd?
After a lot of too-ing and fro-ing between various software suppliers and the NATS helpline, someone at NATS has finally 'fessed-up that the new online flight planning service website won't work with Apple Mac's.
Does this strike anyone else as a bit odd?
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 676
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From: london
From the NATS website.
"What browser am I able to use?
AFPEx has been designed to use Java SE 6 and has been tested with Internet Explorer and Mozilla Firefox. Unfortunately, AFPEx does not currently support Apple's Safari."
From the NATS helpdesk.
I have a 2 year old G5 Powerbook with OS X and Java 10.4 (which is the latest that the machine will run. I'm told that if I upgrade to Leopard perhaps (and only perhaps) I'll be able to access the site. But perhaps not, if I don't have an intel processor.
Just so boring...and un-necessary; if countless pornographers can get really sophisticated smut to run on absolutely everyonespc - regardless of age, software religion et al, why can't this bunch of jokers do the same???
"What browser am I able to use?
AFPEx has been designed to use Java SE 6 and has been tested with Internet Explorer and Mozilla Firefox. Unfortunately, AFPEx does not currently support Apple's Safari."
From the NATS helpdesk.
I have a 2 year old G5 Powerbook with OS X and Java 10.4 (which is the latest that the machine will run. I'm told that if I upgrade to Leopard perhaps (and only perhaps) I'll be able to access the site. But perhaps not, if I don't have an intel processor.
Just so boring...and un-necessary; if countless pornographers can get really sophisticated smut to run on absolutely everyonespc - regardless of age, software religion et al, why can't this bunch of jokers do the same???
Joined: Mar 2005
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From: UK
I must admit, addressing VFR flight plans in AFPEx is a pain. The recent set up of new collective addresses specifically for AFPEx has made this a bit easier, but they're not available for ATS messages such as DEL, CHG, DEP, ARR. You still have to enter these manually 
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 553
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From: UK
Just out of interest...?
What would happen if you filed a FPL from AFPEx when departing an airfield that is connected to the AFTN? Will they be aware of your FPL, or will you still have to fax a copy to the tower?
What would happen if you filed a FPL from AFPEx when departing an airfield that is connected to the AFTN? Will they be aware of your FPL, or will you still have to fax a copy to the tower?
Joined: Oct 2007
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From: In a thriving maritime community
Incidentally,
the AIS website has now a new look.
http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/public/index.php.html
the AIS website has now a new look.
http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/public/index.php.html
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 647
Likes: 0
From: UK
Non availability of digital data (re Guardian Article)
Gpn, as I read the Guardian article, the complaint about non-digital NOTAMs is really about non-digital data re controlled airspace - we want it, but it is not available from CAA or NATS in the form we need it. [All the following is with the caveat "AFAIK" - I am not an expert.]
The moving map displays used in gliders (and for all I know in some other GA kit) need CAS data as, typically, text files in the right format. Different software houses (Winpilot, Glidenav, SeeYou, etc.) have different formats - they grew like Topsy, individually engineered, each with their own way of specifiying coordinates for the corners and altitudes/levels of CAS.
That is a pity, but a historical fact.
At present, each software program (most are not UK-originated) is updated with files of new airspace changes only when some public-spirited volunteers in the UK transcribe official CAA/NATS data into the appropriate formats (different volunteer for each program). This is slightly error-prone, though I have never heard of one getting it wrong. But they could. So they tell users that they can't guarantee that the moving map data is right.
IF CAA/NATS did it, all programs would have a common data base and it would be up to CAA/NATS to get it right. They still might not (errors have appeared on charts before now - missing masts, printing one colour offset from where it should be, and even CAS not correctly depicted etc.) but the responsibility would then lie with CAA/NATS, not the public -spirited volunteers. Moreover, it should be published on a timely basis - today, the volunteers are inevitably doing it after official changes are promulgated.
AIUI.
Chris N.
The moving map displays used in gliders (and for all I know in some other GA kit) need CAS data as, typically, text files in the right format. Different software houses (Winpilot, Glidenav, SeeYou, etc.) have different formats - they grew like Topsy, individually engineered, each with their own way of specifiying coordinates for the corners and altitudes/levels of CAS.
That is a pity, but a historical fact.
At present, each software program (most are not UK-originated) is updated with files of new airspace changes only when some public-spirited volunteers in the UK transcribe official CAA/NATS data into the appropriate formats (different volunteer for each program). This is slightly error-prone, though I have never heard of one getting it wrong. But they could. So they tell users that they can't guarantee that the moving map data is right.
IF CAA/NATS did it, all programs would have a common data base and it would be up to CAA/NATS to get it right. They still might not (errors have appeared on charts before now - missing masts, printing one colour offset from where it should be, and even CAS not correctly depicted etc.) but the responsibility would then lie with CAA/NATS, not the public -spirited volunteers. Moreover, it should be published on a timely basis - today, the volunteers are inevitably doing it after official changes are promulgated.
AIUI.
Chris N.
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 661
Likes: 2
From: up North
What would happen if you filed a FPL from AFPEx when departing an airfield that is connected to the AFTN? Will they be aware of your FPL, or will you still have to fax a copy to the tower?
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: UK
'The recent set up of new collective addresses specifically for AFPEx has made this a bit easier, but they're not available for ATS messages such as DEL, CHG, DEP, ARR. You still have to enter these manually'
If you select the FPL and then go into 'View', you can then 'Operate FPL as' and then select the message type you need, e.g. CHG. This will pull all the addresses from the original FPL, rather than having to clunk the keys.
If you select the FPL and then go into 'View', you can then 'Operate FPL as' and then select the message type you need, e.g. CHG. This will pull all the addresses from the original FPL, rather than having to clunk the keys.
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 553
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From: UK
If you select the FPL and then go into 'View', you can then 'Operate FPL as' and then select the message type you need, e.g. CHG. This will pull all the addresses from the original FPL, rather than having to clunk the keys.