Why fly?
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matt999 - I live in East Anglia and travel throughout the UK and Europe by GA. Essentially outside any city centre where the journey by road would take me over 2.5 - 3 hours I prefer an aircraft. Paris by road/rail is how long? By GA about 2 hours. No contest, no hassle, no check in 2 hours before flight etc.
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I follow the same principle as Working Hard, though as I'm well served by the motorway network the criteria changes:
Up to 2 hours by road - take the car
Over 2 hours by car and is practicable - fly myself.
5 hours or more self flown - go commercial.
There comes a point in life when you realise time is the most valuable commodity.
Up to 2 hours by road - take the car
Over 2 hours by car and is practicable - fly myself.
5 hours or more self flown - go commercial.
There comes a point in life when you realise time is the most valuable commodity.
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Because it is the best experience on earth. Requires, skill dedication and planning which makes it an amazing personal challenge.
I am sat in the aeroclub at Barkerby outside Stockholm about to fly to Copenhagen and then onwards home. There are no less than 7 UK aircraft here including 3 microlights. Yesterday I was in Germany at Bremerharven.
Flew 598nm in 2:40 from Bremerhaven to Barkerby.
Flying is about pushing your boundaries and seeing the world under your own steam, not sanitized and packaged.
I am sat in the aeroclub at Barkerby outside Stockholm about to fly to Copenhagen and then onwards home. There are no less than 7 UK aircraft here including 3 microlights. Yesterday I was in Germany at Bremerharven.
Flew 598nm in 2:40 from Bremerhaven to Barkerby.
Flying is about pushing your boundaries and seeing the world under your own steam, not sanitized and packaged.
if you have a fast IMC machine, and all the ratings to go with it, sometimes it can make sense, as working hard has said.
if i want to fly VFR from my home in hampshire to say, nottingham, by the time i have driven to the airfield, taken off the covers, prefilighted, fuelled etc, i could probably have got there by car at about a quarter of the cost.
so my flying is purely because i can, and the satisfaction it can give. it will never make economic sense to me.
if i want to fly VFR from my home in hampshire to say, nottingham, by the time i have driven to the airfield, taken off the covers, prefilighted, fuelled etc, i could probably have got there by car at about a quarter of the cost.
so my flying is purely because i can, and the satisfaction it can give. it will never make economic sense to me.
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why not!!!!
Because it is the best experience on earth. Requires, skill dedication and planning which makes it an amazing personal challenge.
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Most people who get a PPL give up very quickly, for various reasons.
Of those that remain, different people keep at it for different reasons, but they will all have one thing in common: there is a fair bit of hassle to be dealt with on the ground, and one needs to get a "return" on the activity which makes it worth doing.
When this return stops coming, you pack it up.
For most, the main return is the joy of flying.
The more determined pilots embark on a quest to get some utility value out of it too. This is much harder than just plain PPL-level sunny-Sunday flying, because you need to get your hands on a capable plane and some hard to get bits of paper for yourself which entitle you to fly in/above cloud.
To get real European transport utility you more or less need an IR and a very capable plane, and very very few pilots, perhaps 1% of the PPL population, ever reach that stage. Even that you will never (short of a jet) reach the reliability of an airline. And obviously it works only between proper airports.
For me, each year I get lots of UK away-day trips, a number of foreign get-aways each year, and one or two really nice flying holidays to warm places. But the last one is possible only because I can fly ~ 900nm in one go (5-6hrs).
The moment the wheels touch the ground, the hassle starts. Back home, it's airfield politics, maintenance hassles, you name it. Being airborne has to be a pretty good compensation.
One cannot pretend it's cheap but at ~ 20mpg is compares well with road transport. Great many 4x4s on the motorways get nowhere near 20mpg when going fast.
It will never compare with a cheap airline of course, but as one gets older one gets increasingly resentful at wasting half a day at the sh***y place called "airport". In fact I find it hard to believe that large numbers of people are willing to put up with the treatment. I'd rather fly myself.
Of those that remain, different people keep at it for different reasons, but they will all have one thing in common: there is a fair bit of hassle to be dealt with on the ground, and one needs to get a "return" on the activity which makes it worth doing.
When this return stops coming, you pack it up.
For most, the main return is the joy of flying.
The more determined pilots embark on a quest to get some utility value out of it too. This is much harder than just plain PPL-level sunny-Sunday flying, because you need to get your hands on a capable plane and some hard to get bits of paper for yourself which entitle you to fly in/above cloud.
To get real European transport utility you more or less need an IR and a very capable plane, and very very few pilots, perhaps 1% of the PPL population, ever reach that stage. Even that you will never (short of a jet) reach the reliability of an airline. And obviously it works only between proper airports.
For me, each year I get lots of UK away-day trips, a number of foreign get-aways each year, and one or two really nice flying holidays to warm places. But the last one is possible only because I can fly ~ 900nm in one go (5-6hrs).
The moment the wheels touch the ground, the hassle starts. Back home, it's airfield politics, maintenance hassles, you name it. Being airborne has to be a pretty good compensation.
One cannot pretend it's cheap but at ~ 20mpg is compares well with road transport. Great many 4x4s on the motorways get nowhere near 20mpg when going fast.
It will never compare with a cheap airline of course, but as one gets older one gets increasingly resentful at wasting half a day at the sh***y place called "airport". In fact I find it hard to believe that large numbers of people are willing to put up with the treatment. I'd rather fly myself.
Last edited by IO540; 13th May 2008 at 10:16.
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Originally Posted by cjhants
if i want to fly VFR from my home in hampshire to say, nottingham, by the time i have driven to the airfield, taken off the covers, prefilighted, fuelled etc, i could probably have got there by car at about a quarter of the cost.
so my flying is purely because i can, and the satisfaction it can give. it will never make economic sense to me.
so my flying is purely because i can, and the satisfaction it can give. it will never make economic sense to me.
But I do your quoted journey in reverse quite often and can be airborne 30 minutes after leaving the house. Sitting at 3000ft feeling relaxed, watching the traffic queues on the M40 or A34 knowing I'm not getting stressed sat in the traffic, means more to me than money can buy.
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Fun and the challenge are the main reasons for me but also the fact that I would not like to lose the amazing privelages that come with your licence, whatever one you have.
Up here in Scotland we have so many islands that are only a short hop accross the water but may have a very restricted ferry service, non existant on Sundays which makes flight a far better option and quite often cheaper due to the geography and distance you would have to drive in order to catch that elusive ferry.
A lot of my friends fly because they couldn`t be ar**d having to do it all again if they let it slip.......
I guess that once its in the blood not even the most enthusiastic blood tranfusion could remove it.
Up here in Scotland we have so many islands that are only a short hop accross the water but may have a very restricted ferry service, non existant on Sundays which makes flight a far better option and quite often cheaper due to the geography and distance you would have to drive in order to catch that elusive ferry.
A lot of my friends fly because they couldn`t be ar**d having to do it all again if they let it slip.......
I guess that once its in the blood not even the most enthusiastic blood tranfusion could remove it.
Pompey till I die
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It pulls the chicks at parties.
Ha ha, suckers. Little do they realise that pilots are amongst the nerdiest race of people there are. Think avid D&D player crossed with train spotter.
Ha ha, suckers. Little do they realise that pilots are amongst the nerdiest race of people there are. Think avid D&D player crossed with train spotter.
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I learned to fly-to fly!
I fly a hand swing,slow aircraft with a relatively small range from a small grass strip,and once airborne all I want to do is fly.
I don't particularly want to land away as there is a certain amount of hassle starting,airport procedures etc.
So my great joy is being able to use my hard won privilege to get up in the air around East Anglia,and enjoy the never ending wonder of flight.
Lister
I fly a hand swing,slow aircraft with a relatively small range from a small grass strip,and once airborne all I want to do is fly.
I don't particularly want to land away as there is a certain amount of hassle starting,airport procedures etc.
So my great joy is being able to use my hard won privilege to get up in the air around East Anglia,and enjoy the never ending wonder of flight.
Lister
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Thanks everyone, your replies are worded much better than my original question(s).
My dad was a glider instructor and he paid for me, my brother and sister to fly gliders as teenagers. Now age 43 and after reading 'propellerhead', I am reading everything I can online and buying the odd 'Pilot' magazine, thinking of getting a suitable licence to buy a microlight or PFA/LAA aircraft such as a Jodel or maybe a share in a proper group 'A' aircraft.
I know there is rarely a reason for GA to make economic sense, but part of my justification is that my family and I will get SOME utility out of a plane. I drive about 25,00 mile a year, but rarely more than 2hrs away. I might be able to use a plane for European holidays once or twice a year.
Even a cheap two-seat LAA plane would kep me current, and I could hire a four-seater for hols.
One thought is to get a Funk FK9 http://www.fk-lightplanes.com/html/fk9_-_mk_iv.html (472.5kg, Group A) with diesel engine, and hire it out for hour-building, to get other people to contribute to my flying. Another thought is that it would be part of my boys' education, just as gliders were part of mine.
Just kicking around ideas before I suggest to my wife that I spend £20-30k (licence and plane) of our hard-earned on mucking about in the sky.
My dad was a glider instructor and he paid for me, my brother and sister to fly gliders as teenagers. Now age 43 and after reading 'propellerhead', I am reading everything I can online and buying the odd 'Pilot' magazine, thinking of getting a suitable licence to buy a microlight or PFA/LAA aircraft such as a Jodel or maybe a share in a proper group 'A' aircraft.
I know there is rarely a reason for GA to make economic sense, but part of my justification is that my family and I will get SOME utility out of a plane. I drive about 25,00 mile a year, but rarely more than 2hrs away. I might be able to use a plane for European holidays once or twice a year.
Even a cheap two-seat LAA plane would kep me current, and I could hire a four-seater for hols.
One thought is to get a Funk FK9 http://www.fk-lightplanes.com/html/fk9_-_mk_iv.html (472.5kg, Group A) with diesel engine, and hire it out for hour-building, to get other people to contribute to my flying. Another thought is that it would be part of my boys' education, just as gliders were part of mine.
Just kicking around ideas before I suggest to my wife that I spend £20-30k (licence and plane) of our hard-earned on mucking about in the sky.
Just kicking around ideas before I suggest to my wife that I spend £20-30k (licence and plane) of our hard-earned on mucking about in the sky.
) so go for it 
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If you have time to spare..........................go by air !
Generally speaking any journey that would be up to 200 miles by car will always be quicker door to door by car, and of course much cheaper.
As for fun, then the 'plane every time
A private flight can not really be considered 'practical or cost effective'
But if you don't need justification and can afford to miss an appointment due to bad weather, then enjoy
Personally I only fly professionally now, but if I were to fly for fun then I would do so in a small 3 axis microlight away from airfields etc.
For me the fun is simply 'being up there'
Cheers
UTF
Generally speaking any journey that would be up to 200 miles by car will always be quicker door to door by car, and of course much cheaper.
As for fun, then the 'plane every time
A private flight can not really be considered 'practical or cost effective'
But if you don't need justification and can afford to miss an appointment due to bad weather, then enjoy
Personally I only fly professionally now, but if I were to fly for fun then I would do so in a small 3 axis microlight away from airfields etc.
For me the fun is simply 'being up there'
Cheers
UTF
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It pulls the chicks at parties.
A private flight can not really be considered 'practical or cost effective'
Cost effective... that depends on the value you put on your time.
Millions of people put virtually zero value on their time, and will make their way across the UK to Stansted where they waste half a day having their back orifice x-rayed, just to fly on a £30 ticket which (presumably) makes them feel good about the whole sorry process.
I might spend a couple of hours flight planning and faxing off PPR etc, 20 mins drive to the airport, 30 mins preflight etc, 5hrs later (a normally very enjoyable flight with great views) I have landed in Croatia and 20 mins later we are in the hotel. BUT the departure might be delayed a day or two due to weather.
Caveats:
- if I had to drive to the airport for say 2hrs I would probably give up flying
- to do this without some headaches, and legally, one needs an IR. I used to do these trips under VFR but would never do it again - it's awfully hard to always be in VMC but the worst bit is never quite knowing whether they will let you into some piece of airspace so a dogled needs to be done in double quick time. And I admit an IR is the hardest thing I have ever done.
Generally speaking any journey that would be up to 200 miles by car will always be quicker door to door by car, and of course much cheaper
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Why fly?
I fly because a journey to my house in Scotland consists of :
6 hours drive through the night followed by 3 hour ferry
2 regular flights followed by 2 hours in a fishing boat
2 hours in a 172 direct
Even the ecomomics make sense!
6 hours drive through the night followed by 3 hour ferry
2 regular flights followed by 2 hours in a fishing boat
2 hours in a 172 direct
Even the ecomomics make sense!