150 and touring...Is it possible
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150 and touring...Is it possible
Just had a look at the Balance and weight chart for 150.
With 2 guys at 90kg (yes we need to lighten up!!!) and no baggage. That leaves about 10 US gallons of fuel.
1 hour cruise at 6 gal/hr.
Thats 4 gallons left for takeoff- landing, climb, diversion!!!!
So basically 2 guys of 90kg can't do much in a 150.
Have I missed something?
With 2 guys at 90kg (yes we need to lighten up!!!) and no baggage. That leaves about 10 US gallons of fuel.
1 hour cruise at 6 gal/hr.
Thats 4 gallons left for takeoff- landing, climb, diversion!!!!
So basically 2 guys of 90kg can't do much in a 150.
Have I missed something?
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Missed something...
Nope.
You might improve the burn with the red knob - but not significantly.
Your touring will probably view more of the inside of various club-houses paying landing fees and fuel charges than flying.
If it's not your aeroplane and your renting - then rent bigger, then you might be able to take some bags as well!
HTH
You might improve the burn with the red knob - but not significantly.
Your touring will probably view more of the inside of various club-houses paying landing fees and fuel charges than flying.
If it's not your aeroplane and your renting - then rent bigger, then you might be able to take some bags as well!
HTH
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Thanks DD,
Just looking at what would be a suitable a/c to buy a share in for doing relatively cheap flying but doing interesting things at the same time.
I'll cross a 150 off that list...
Just looking at what would be a suitable a/c to buy a share in for doing relatively cheap flying but doing interesting things at the same time.
I'll cross a 150 off that list...
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It gets worse if it has long range tanks fitted. The flying club once allocated me and a quite petite lady pilot a 150 with long range tanks for a fly-out to Alderney. We determined that it was not possible to make the flight safely and legally given the increase in empty weight caused by the long range tanks and made the trip in a different a/c.
That said, an examination of the limitations on most a/c in the GA fleet will reveal that the design concept was based on people somewhat smaller and lighter than we tend to be today (or on some wishful thinking on the part of the design team).
That said, an examination of the limitations on most a/c in the GA fleet will reveal that the design concept was based on people somewhat smaller and lighter than we tend to be today (or on some wishful thinking on the part of the design team).
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Ok well I am going to put the spanner in the works. It is perfectly possible to tour a 150/152 across Europe. Been there and done it, from Prague to Morocco over more than a thousand hours. If I can work out how to link pics I will show you.
Yes you have to be careful with weight and occasionally a bit of creativity might be needed just the same as the flying clubs that head off on X-Country in them with 2 lard asses when training......
They are great little tourers, Cessna built them originally as the 'Commuter' for commuting across states.
The beauty of doing these trips in a 150 is you become better at planning to make sure you have fuel stops and diversions, you get to see more places, the costs of fuel is less, you get more flying hours and you have more fun.
There is a guy at my club who flies a 65hp taylorcraft and once a year he heads off on some mammoth trip with the same restrictions as you will experience with the 150 yet he has some amazing trips.
Private flying is about the journey not just the destination.
Yes you have to be careful with weight and occasionally a bit of creativity might be needed just the same as the flying clubs that head off on X-Country in them with 2 lard asses when training......
They are great little tourers, Cessna built them originally as the 'Commuter' for commuting across states.
The beauty of doing these trips in a 150 is you become better at planning to make sure you have fuel stops and diversions, you get to see more places, the costs of fuel is less, you get more flying hours and you have more fun.
There is a guy at my club who flies a 65hp taylorcraft and once a year he heads off on some mammoth trip with the same restrictions as you will experience with the 150 yet he has some amazing trips.
Private flying is about the journey not just the destination.
Does the 150 carry a lot less fuel than a 152? I only ask because I did a lot of training on the 152 and it was burning 6 USG an hour giving it 4 hours endurance with 2 POB.
Admittedly a huge amount of creativity was needed to ensure you were within official Mass and Balance limits for take off when fully loaded. In fact, if my memory serves me correctly, you were well outside limits with 2 blokes and full fuel, but everyone regularly did that, and there was no difficulty getting off the ground even in mid-summer.
Admittedly a huge amount of creativity was needed to ensure you were within official Mass and Balance limits for take off when fully loaded. In fact, if my memory serves me correctly, you were well outside limits with 2 blokes and full fuel, but everyone regularly did that, and there was no difficulty getting off the ground even in mid-summer.
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Let's just be clear: 'Creativity' is violation. Violating statistically increases your chances of an accident. You will be found out.
Your funeral - perhaps literally.
That said, I imagine that Kate Moss and one of her friends from 'Anorexics Anonymous' might put together a decent touring plan..?
Your funeral - perhaps literally.
That said, I imagine that Kate Moss and one of her friends from 'Anorexics Anonymous' might put together a decent touring plan..?
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Actually creativity was relating to the fact that it is perfectly possible to meet the requirements carrying nothing but the bare essentials in the aircraft, taking the absolute minimum in clothing and hygiene essentials and carrying out careful planning on destination and diversions. Using the sink in the Hotel to wash the next days underwear etc. Exactly the same methods we use when touring by motorcycle in the summer.
When I did my XC in a 152 all we took was headsets and map, even kneeboards were left behind, anything that could shave weight in favour of fuel.
Hence my comment that doing that sort of trip makes you a better pilot and is a lot more fun.
When I did my XC in a 152 all we took was headsets and map, even kneeboards were left behind, anything that could shave weight in favour of fuel.
Hence my comment that doing that sort of trip makes you a better pilot and is a lot more fun.
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bose,
With respect, we both know that that's not what most people mean by creativity in this context.
With respect, we both know that that's not what most people mean by creativity in this context.
I will reiterate that it is my view that a 150 can be used for long distance touring if you are creative. Creative does not have to mean violating the rules, in my view it can give credit to the ability of people to find a legitimate solution to a problem.
Perhaps I am just a half full rather than half empty kind of guy.....
touring in a 150
possible, yes. I fly a 150 horse Cub 22 kilos of baggage, full fuel, (135L) two up, within all limits. Much better, but not quick, with an 80kt cruise you get to see the scenery. Navaids magnetic compass, map and watch. Oh, and 300m strips are adequate.
Get a slow aeroplane that is a reasonable weight lifter and enjoy touring. Don't get one that is underpowered. Decent aeroplane that the 150 is, it isn't the world's best tourer. You might think about an LAA (ex PFA) type. Where do you fly? Can you hire a few different types to try?
Get a slow aeroplane that is a reasonable weight lifter and enjoy touring. Don't get one that is underpowered. Decent aeroplane that the 150 is, it isn't the world's best tourer. You might think about an LAA (ex PFA) type. Where do you fly? Can you hire a few different types to try?
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In fact, if my memory serves me correctly, you were well outside limits with 2 blokes and full fuel, but everyone regularly did that, and there was no difficulty getting off the ground even in mid-summer.
Haven't the remotest clue how much truth there is in this myth, mind you.
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Real world numbers
67 150G with long range tanks, MTOW 1600 lbs. I weigh 160, full fuel (38 gallons) is 228 more, leaves me 112 lbs for people and things I want to take with me. (Payload is about 500 lbs on most 150 and 152, varies slightly but not significantly year to year, equipment fitted, etc.) Standard tank 150 is 26 gallons (22.5 usable) or 156 lbs, which means my passenger can now weigh 72 lbs more, or 184.
152 is 1670 lbs MTOW, but the airplane is heavier, so payload is still right about 500 lbs. Early 150s were 1500 MTOW, airplane was lighter, bingo, 500 lbs payload yet again.
Individual airplanes' performance also varies. I flew a pair of 152s (no, not at the same time), one would climb 900 fpm at gross on a warm day, the other, parked at the adjacent tiedown at the same airport, would only do 450 fpm on a cool day, same other conditions. (Yes, we untied it first.)
Most US origin aircraft were designed for "standard FAA passengers" which in those days was 170 lbs each. FAA has issued a ferry permit for a 150 at 2,200 lbs for a trip to Africa, so the airplane will do it, but I'll bet the rate of climb was less than impressive.
Touring in a 150 - yes, you can do it if you are not in a hurry, do not intend to take everything and the kitchen sink with you (no spare engine!), and are willing to make 2.5 to 3 hour legs, which usually comes out to about 250 to 300 miles. Use ANR headsets, too - these airplanes are LOUD inside.
If you are at a sea level, paved airport with long runways on a cool day, a few pounds overgross won't hurt you, but of course it is not legal. If the airport is in the mountains, dirt or turf, on a hot day, and 500 feet to the edge of the cliff, ummm, that's another story.
CG isn't a tremendous problem either on 150s as long as you load your "stuff" forward, behind the seats, and not at the back of the tail cone.
Figure on 5.5 GPH or thereabouts, actual cruise speeds about 100 mph. And have a good time!
Best Regards,
Echo Mike (150 owner since 1982)
152 is 1670 lbs MTOW, but the airplane is heavier, so payload is still right about 500 lbs. Early 150s were 1500 MTOW, airplane was lighter, bingo, 500 lbs payload yet again.
Individual airplanes' performance also varies. I flew a pair of 152s (no, not at the same time), one would climb 900 fpm at gross on a warm day, the other, parked at the adjacent tiedown at the same airport, would only do 450 fpm on a cool day, same other conditions. (Yes, we untied it first.)
Most US origin aircraft were designed for "standard FAA passengers" which in those days was 170 lbs each. FAA has issued a ferry permit for a 150 at 2,200 lbs for a trip to Africa, so the airplane will do it, but I'll bet the rate of climb was less than impressive.
Touring in a 150 - yes, you can do it if you are not in a hurry, do not intend to take everything and the kitchen sink with you (no spare engine!), and are willing to make 2.5 to 3 hour legs, which usually comes out to about 250 to 300 miles. Use ANR headsets, too - these airplanes are LOUD inside.
If you are at a sea level, paved airport with long runways on a cool day, a few pounds overgross won't hurt you, but of course it is not legal. If the airport is in the mountains, dirt or turf, on a hot day, and 500 feet to the edge of the cliff, ummm, that's another story.
CG isn't a tremendous problem either on 150s as long as you load your "stuff" forward, behind the seats, and not at the back of the tail cone.
Figure on 5.5 GPH or thereabouts, actual cruise speeds about 100 mph. And have a good time!
Best Regards,
Echo Mike (150 owner since 1982)
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This is not a cheap option but you could buy a Socata TB20
Payload 500kg of which 234kg is full fuel, enough to fly from Lydd to Corfu (zero reserve).
More expensive than a 150, of course.
Payload 500kg of which 234kg is full fuel, enough to fly from Lydd to Corfu (zero reserve).
More expensive than a 150, of course.
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Its very pleasing to see you take the W&B seriously. Given our porky western waists almost every 150/152 and tomahawk will be out of limits with two people on board. Yet still they fly.
Try a bulldog, you can get two porkies with luggage in no problem.
Try a bulldog, you can get two porkies with luggage in no problem.
