Online Flight Plan Filing
Joined: Aug 2000
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From: UK
That's because a VFR flight plan cannot (in modern Europe) be refused.
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: EuroGA.org
Could you develop a bit on that? I haven't had one refused so far, but my understanding is that it can, for a host of things, such as PPR not requested/obtained when necessary, airfield being closed or unable to accommodate your flight, wrong FPL information, etc., etc.
It's a pretty obvious thing to do, of course, but aviation is not renowned for non anally retarded people. In Italy, you can file a flight plan to some airport with a 3hr Customs PPR, fly there 24hrs later, and they will still refuse you a clearance to land. A phone or fax is the only way. The fact that the monkey who receives the phone/fax also has a terminal on his desk showing inbound flight plans, is irrelevant.
Nobody checks airfield opening hours versus the FP.
Wrong FP info... perhaps but how wrong? What can be wrong?
The only time I have had a VFR FP refused was when I filed one through Montenegro airspace - they wanted to change the routing (just a different set of airways intersections) and then it was fine.
As bookworm points out, it is possible for somebody at the receiving end to actually look at the FP (rare as this is in reality) and realise there is something wrong, and try to contact the pilot, telling him that e.g. his route passes through an active RA. I have never come across this though, myself. The problem would be how to contact the pilot. The facility which files the FP for him usually has no way to contact him. I don't know whether homebriefing.com would pass a message back; based on a situation I had last year I don't think they do pass anything back beyond the standard accept/refuse.
Joined: May 2005
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From: Abroad
PPR is not related to flight plans
Nobody checks airfield opening hours versus the FP.
Wrong FP info... perhaps but how wrong? What can be wrong?
The problem would be how to contact the pilot
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: EuroGA.org
Yes I know, but I was thinking of a specific instance of an airport which at the time I flew there was notamed as PPR. They said I didn't need to call as such, just file a flight plan and if it wasn't rejected (by them) I was good to go.
Again in my experience, wrong ICAO identifiers, wrong ETA, wrong endurance for the type, and wrong survival equipment info. Maybe it's just where I fly that people seem to actually look at flight plans (which is reassuring)
On IFR flight plans, the Eurocontrol computer checks your flight planned ETE against the computed ETE (based on your flight planned speed and flight planned route) and chucks out the FP if there is a discrepancy of more than about 30% or so. But an IFR FP gets chucked out immediately (or not) by the computer. VFR flight plans are not checked automatically.
Whenever possible I include my telephone number as a RMK/ on field 18, makes things a lot easier (and potentially cheaper) should anything happen.
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 41
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From: london, UK
Dublinpilot
re "I can't see Heathrow closing"
if you check out the ais.org.uk website, you will find a reference to AFPEx telling you to look at supplement S7/2008, dated 27March08. I have read this document, and it states "..Parental AFTN function will no longer be available at Scottish Centre, Manchester and Heathrow"
Reading through the document, it also states that Swanwick is going to take over the handling of FPL faxes, although the fax number is not given. Doesn't say whether or not you can file a FPL over the phone as you can now. As of today, Heathrow was still accepting FPLs. (Presumably they have not officially been told that they will shortly be defunct.
)
My last word on this - I said in earlier posts that I had been told that this was more than just NATS offering us a new addition to the flight planning service. Now it looks like Heathrow FBU, (amongst others) which has served the GA community very well over the years, has been shafted up the a*se by their own colleagues - no wonder SwanFIS and FlyUk have shut up shop on here.
"Et tu, Brute?"
re "I can't see Heathrow closing"
if you check out the ais.org.uk website, you will find a reference to AFPEx telling you to look at supplement S7/2008, dated 27March08. I have read this document, and it states "..Parental AFTN function will no longer be available at Scottish Centre, Manchester and Heathrow"
Reading through the document, it also states that Swanwick is going to take over the handling of FPL faxes, although the fax number is not given. Doesn't say whether or not you can file a FPL over the phone as you can now. As of today, Heathrow was still accepting FPLs. (Presumably they have not officially been told that they will shortly be defunct.
)My last word on this - I said in earlier posts that I had been told that this was more than just NATS offering us a new addition to the flight planning service. Now it looks like Heathrow FBU, (amongst others) which has served the GA community very well over the years, has been shafted up the a*se by their own colleagues - no wonder SwanFIS and FlyUk have shut up shop on here.
"Et tu, Brute?"
Last edited by pelagic; 11th April 2008 at 00:40.
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: EuroGA.org
If the closure of the Heathrow FBU is the price of having online flight plan filing (which UK pilots have been asking for for as many years as the internet has been around, and particularly since ais.org.uk came online with the flight plan filing option so obviously deliberately unimplemented) then that amounts to worthwhile progress, IMHO.
Anyway it sounds like there will be a fax# after all.
Incidentally, regarding homebriefing.com, has anyone seen a pricing structure for non-Austria/Swiss flight plans beyond the 10/year limit? It was speculated they will charge them at Euro 3.70 each but I cannot see this on their website. Maybe they just raised this to enable them to handle the cases of people filing huge numbers of flight plans; something which their Euro 37/year flat rate must have encouraged.... Anyway I think the 10/year limit (if it indeed is a limit) within the E37 will do most UK pilots' foreign flight plan requirements.
Anyway it sounds like there will be a fax# after all.
Incidentally, regarding homebriefing.com, has anyone seen a pricing structure for non-Austria/Swiss flight plans beyond the 10/year limit? It was speculated they will charge them at Euro 3.70 each but I cannot see this on their website. Maybe they just raised this to enable them to handle the cases of people filing huge numbers of flight plans; something which their Euro 37/year flat rate must have encouraged.... Anyway I think the 10/year limit (if it indeed is a limit) within the E37 will do most UK pilots' foreign flight plan requirements.
Joined: Nov 2007
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From: New Zealand
Regarding the allocation of an AFTN address to each FPL filer. In one former East European country you can file FPLs and get OPMET and NOTAM briefings etc online but like the prudent folks they are the connection from the 'online' computer system (that the user can see) to their internal systems is via a very narrow 'pipe' which is basically a single AFTN channel. In their case the AFTN address is automatically assigned and will expire and be re-assigned in the fullness of time. I believe the same country has the option for trusted users to be assigned an enduring AFTN address so that in effect they have a full AFTN terminal available on their own PC.
How do I know this? Well, we wrote the software... which leads onto another question, one that I am sometimes asked though I have not yet been able to help anyone. The question is, 'Is there any online service where world-roaming aviators can file FPLs no matter which country they are flying in, to or from?
How do I know this? Well, we wrote the software... which leads onto another question, one that I am sometimes asked though I have not yet been able to help anyone. The question is, 'Is there any online service where world-roaming aviators can file FPLs no matter which country they are flying in, to or from?
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: EuroGA.org
The question is, 'Is there any online service where world-roaming aviators can file FPLs no matter which country they are flying in, to or from?
However, there are other services. For example Jeppesen provide a comprehensive flight support package, and I believe this is what business jets etc tend to use. This will include flight plan filing.
You can also get flight plans filed via the handling company at the airport you are at. This may not be convenient however, as one would normally try to file the flight plan for the next leg the night before departure, so that any rejections can be dealt with in plenty of time, rather than an hour before the planned departure...
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Surrey
) when I wrote the wrong ICAO ident for Inishmore and when I was late calling for start after a longer security process than hoped for. Once I got their phone number the ladies of Shannon provided a very friendly and personal service (for FP filing that is!).
