Simplified IR ?

[IO540]

is a "simplifield IR" likely to materialise sometime in the next four years or not?

This one is really impossible to have a stab at. Four years is an awfully long time.

EASA has only just taken over FCL legally; they will need a year or two to get sorted, they will then be frying the most important fish first (which is definitely not a more accessible private IR) and in the meantime there is the "LAPL" which had the IFR option voted off it recently but apparently the matter is being re-opened by EASA who are in principle supportive.

So it's all up in the air.

Why do you say "4 years"?

[tmmorris]

Why do you say "four years"

I'm guessing here, but... that's how long the IMC rating is guaranteed for. Without either the survival of the latter or a more accessible IR many of us face VFR only flying.

Tim

[DFC]

Because there are so few people who want to obtain a PPL/IR, the education providers do not have PPL/IR courses, only CPL/IR or ATPL/IR.

No.

There is no difference between the single pilot IR held by a PPL or a CPL or an ATPL.

If you have a PPL which includes an IR, after you get a CPL your single pilot IR will be placed in the CPL also - no further exams or tests required. The same goes for those that obtain an ATPL.

The difference between the holder of a PPL with SEP and IR compared to a CPL with SEP and IR is simply the second one can be paid for doing the some of the flying that the former does for fun. Nothing more.

Would people be in favour of scrapping the approved theory course requirement (even if done at an approved RTF) for it to be replaced by a study as you want, a multiple choice tests and a 60 minute verbal grilling from the examminer on the day of the practical test?

Oh and lets put a price tag of £1000 for the extended test with the CAA examminer.

Regards,

DFC

[IO540]

I'm guessing here, but... that's how long the IMC rating is guaranteed for. Without either the survival of the latter or a more accessible IR many of us face VFR only flying.

OK I see that now.

I reckon the IMCR issue will be solved before the 4 years runs out. I am hoping for an "EASA IR" with an intermediate step.

[englishal]

If there was separate IR writtens for SEP, MEP, High Performance/CPL/ATPL, which do you think most people would do and what the costs of doing each would be.

Why would you need such a thing? An IR is an IR is an IR...whether it be in a PA28-140, PA34-200T, B200 or a CJ.

Whether you can fly the PA28-140, PA34-200T B200 or a CJ is a completely different matter and independant of the IR.

The IR gound exams will still cost in the region of £800 to complete (compared to $90 and a copy of the ASA manuals for the FAA).

[BackPacker]

There is no difference between the single pilot IR held by a PPL or a CPL or an ATPL.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. What I meant was that there are no standalone course materials or standalone courses for PPL people aspiring to have an IR. Instead, the only course materials and courses I could find was for people who want to end up with a CPL+IR or ATPL (which includes IR), so in those materials the IR specific stuff is integrated with the CPL stuff or ATPL stuff. In fact, when I enquired a year or so ago the exact advise I was given was to do either the ATPL or CPL+IR theory since the books were almost exactly the same as for a standalone IR and the costs would almost be the same too.

I cannot help but thinking that that's where the myth comes from that you need 707-type fuel planning knowledge to do the IR exam. Oh, and you'll be sharing the classroom with people for whom 707-type fuel planning will be an issue later in life, and as such, if it comes to that, they'll be freely discussing it during the IR portions of the course. While I probably will not be doing anything more complex than managing the fuel in a 172. (Which apparently is so complex it needs its own thread anyway.)

[DFC]

Why would you need such a thing? An IR is an IR is an IR...whether it be in a PA28-140, PA34-200T, B200 or a CJ.

Whether you can fly the PA28-140, PA34-200T B200 or a CJ is a completely different matter and independant of the IR.

Firstly, the IR obtained on a single engine aircraft is not valid in a multi engine aircraft.

Secondly, A B200 or CJ require a type rating which includes instrument flight training and the type rating test includes an IR test. Thus at the initial and every LPC you do you are renewing the IR also.

That is the current position.

The reason why I said -

If there was separate IR writtens for SEP, MEP, High Performance/CPL/ATPL, which do you think most people would do and what the costs of doing each would be.

Is that many people claim they want a simple IR when they only want to fly a C172. However, getting what they want may actually make the costs increase and restrict further advancement.

In other words - be careful what you ask for because you might actually get it!

There is of course another option - increase the PPL theory in the appropriate areas and then there would only be the pure IFR elements required for the IR limited to PPL-SEP theory.

Of course then the PPLs who only want to fly VFR complain. It is quite somply a vicious circle.

Regards

DFC

[FullyFlapped]

The reason why I said -

Quote:
If there was separate IR writtens for SEP, MEP, High Performance/CPL/ATPL, which do you think most people would do and what the costs of doing each would be.

Is that many people claim they want a simple IR when they only want to fly a C172. However, getting what they want may actually make the costs increase and restrict further advancement.

Would you care to explain why this would be the case ?

[XX621]

Originally Posted by tmmorris

I'm guessing here, but... that's how long the IMC rating is guaranteed for. Without either the survival of the latter or a more accessible IR many of us face VFR only flying.

Tim

Yes that was my thinking exactly.

[cessnapete]

Just validate the FAA IR for use in any ICAO/JAA country, then we would all be happy. If it is good enough for a Capt flying a US airliner in UK airspace then what is the problem?
I haven't seen scores of FAA rated uk pilots falling out of the sky.
The handling test and recency is what is required for safety, not useless CAA exams suitable for a 1950 sea captain!