BA Flying Club High Wycombe

[XX621]

I'm looking for a new club to do a couple of ratings with (IMC reval + tailwheel, maybe multi)...would anyone care to comment on this FTO? Friendliness, quality of instruction, atmosphere, aircraft availability etc etc?

Thanks all!

[TheGorrilla]

Very good. They've got some excellent, highly experienced instructors there who have been around the block a few times and still teach and run the place well. I would say the down side is the airfield get very busy and has full atc. Though when training this is a good thing to get used to.

For tailwheel they have both grass and hard runways so you don't need to go anywhere else.

[Insight]

I am doing my PPL with them at present. Staff all seem friendly enough once they have gotten used to seeing your face around and the instructors seem excellent.

Aircraft availability seems good, it does get busy as said but they are quite good with their charging I find.

We were waiting about 10 or 15 minutes for take off clearance due to inbound traffic on one occasion but it wasn't included in my charge (although they describe their charges as chock to chock).

They operate a fantastic Chipmunk too for the tailwheel side of things!

[JOE-FBS]

Hello XX621,

I don't know whether your alias suggests a military connection but that would make you welcome at Halton where we have an aerobatic tail dragger (brand new Citabria) as well as some 152s, a 182 and a PA28. At least one instructor has an IMC instructing qualilfication and we have just put a simulator on-line. No twins though (except the simulator oddly enough).

You can join without a military connection (I don't have any and they let me in), it's just not so cheap.

http://www.haltonaeroclub.org.uk/

[Ken Wells]

10 mins away at White Waltham you will have a better time as the social side is good and they do tail wheel, IMC, twin etc.

Although it is only a short hop away it is lower at only 130' above sea level. You will tend to find that while Booker is in the cloud and shut. Waltham is still active in the circuit.

check out

http://www.wlac.co.uk/

[smarthawke]

And more than once, Booker is up in the clear, and WW is down in the crud! Works both ways.

Best thing to do is go up to BAFC and meet the people and ask to be shown around the facilities, aircraft, engineering etc and make your own mind up.

[wsmempson]

I learnt with BAFC in 2003/4 and, having visited various schools on nearby fields and taken trial lessons with at least two others (including one national chain that seems to feature lots of hour building teenaged boys in white shirts and gold braid) and came to the conclusion that BAFC were the best outfit around, by some degree.

The fleet of Warriors is immaculately kept by the in-house engineering department (I can't remember any of the fleet going 'tech' during my course) and the instructors are either career instructors or semi-retired airline pilots trying to give something back to GA.

Dick Thurbin was the instructor taught me, and his common-sense, relaxed style got me through the course very effectively indeed. I'm sure the other instructors are great, but I took the decision early on in my course to try to stick with one individual - for the sake of consistency.

At Booker, there is a full tower, rather than information or radio - so the r/t is more of a challenge; this is great preparation for the future as, if you can cope here, you'll cope anywhere!

My advice to anyone about to embark on a PPL is to do the rounds of the various schools and have a good look around before committing yourself to one school - take a trial lesson at the final three you're considering, as this will be money well spent in the long run.

I like White Waltham very much (I'm a member down there and enjoy the bar and club atmosphere a great deal) but reckon, as a school, BAFC are still the 'gold standard'.

PM me if you want further advice or info.

[Three Yellows]

what wsmempson says

[Dan Dare]

what Three Yellows says

[XX621]

WLAC

Thanks all for the helpful comments.
I actually used to be a member of WLAC and yes its a charming place, but £300 membership to make use of the nice bar is a bit steep, plus there was a lack of experienced instructors on their full-time staff (only major criticism). I am fond of the place but the £££s are better spent on flying time.

BAFC looks very good, I'll certainly pay them a visit. Operating from a busy doesn't bother me in the slightest, except for the possible delays of course.

I've noticed most FTOs in the area charge around 160-190 p/h for IMC instruction these days. Can someone explain exactly why IMC instructors cost so much to carry? Do they cost more to employ??

[Ken Wells]

Het don't get me wrong I like Booker.

I did my QFI Fixed wing upgrade with Tony Geisling at Wycombe Air Centre many many years ago and three years ago gained my PPL(H) with Heliair.

I have always been impressed with the ATC, managing Gliders, Multi and single fixed wing, on grass and tarmac runways, along side angry palm trees blasting about the airfield.

I only suggested WW, as after a days flight it is good to chew the fat with fellow pilots in an historic, atmospheric clubhouse, that Booker just doesn't have.

I am pleased that Booker is a stones throw away as they also have great expertise in specialist maintenance. Personal Plane services did a great job on our Nangchang after a rather nasty airstrike. Aircraft came back imaculate.

I agree that you should shop around but that is the beauty of forums like this, to get as much feedback before you start looking.

[Three Yellows]

wsmempson said

My advice to anyone about to embark on a PPL is to do the rounds of the various schools and have a good look around before committing yourself to one school - take a trial lesson at the final three you're considering, as this will be money well spent in the long run.

If I could just add, for any newbies browsing this thread.... and stating the obvious, but that's what I'm best at......

1) Those trial lessons all count towards your PPL
2) Don't think that once you have "committed" yourself that you couldn't change - if you need too, you can, just take your training record with you - no problem at all (although it shouldn't come to that in reality). Make sure you annotate your log book with the details of each lesson as well.
3) Never be afraid to change instructors within a club/school if you feel that you are not getting on particularly well with a particular instructor. It may just be that someone else explains things in a different (not better) way which you can understand.

[Duchess_Driver]

"I've noticed most FTOs in the area charge around 160-190 p/h for IMC instruction these days. Can someone explain exactly why IMC instructors cost so much to carry? Do they cost more to employ?? "

The reason, I suspect, is two fold....

...It costs more to have this qualification, as you need to have the Applied Instrument Instruction restriction removed to teach IMC which is more work and money.

and

...There are fewer around so they need to be remunerated better to keep them. If PPL instructors are 'rare' these days, then it would be easier to nail jelly to the ceiling than find a decent instructor with the AII restriction removed.

At the moment, TPC at Denham don't charge additional amounts for the IMC qualification, and to cap it there is no hidden fuel surcharge either!

[smarthawke]

British Airways Flying Club don't charge extra for IMC training - there's just one dual rate on the Warriors and Dakota regardless of what you are training for PPL, IMC or Night.

Sounds like another mark up scam to me, like the 'hidden' fuel surcharges, landing fees etc that some companies spring on the unsuspecting customer.....

BAFC Weather page is proving very useful:

http://www.bafc.co.uk/weather.shtml

[Genghis the Engineer]

I'm not a BAFC customer, except that I own a share in an aeroplane on the same field, so I think they're getting our rent money.

It's worth mentioning that there are two light aircraft schools on the site: BAFC (mostly teaching on Pipers) and Wycombe Air Centre (mostly teaching on Cessnas). So far as I can see both are providing an excellent service to their students & students and running very well looked after aeroplanes. (I have done a few training hours with WAC, and the instructors and aeroplanes were very good).

On that basis, if you are looking at learning to fly at Wycombe, you could do far worse than looking hard at both schools. The distance between them is around 2 minutes walk!

And whilst you're at it, if you just want to fly, there's a gliding club in between them who also seem to be doing a pretty good job.

G

[gpn01]

"if you just want to fly, there's a gliding club in between them who also seem to be doing a pretty good job"

....just ? just? arrggghh!

Thanks for the plug Genghis but we glider pilots at Booker do racing, aerobatics, cross-country flying, thermal soaring, ridge running and have lots of fun too!

Oops, sorry got a bit off topic there!

:-)

[Genghis the Engineer]

Expanded version:

"If you just want to do high quality flying, enjoy yourself and learn lots of stuff, then you don't actually need an engine...."

(I probably should have plugged the microlighters at Booker as well just for completeness shouldn't I! Ho hum.)

G

[gpn01]

Yeah but at least a couple of them are glider pilots too!...there is no escape.

;-)

[mixture]

BAFC is a great place to learn.

Great fleet, knowledgeable instructors.

My only complaint would be about Jon Hartill, the CFI (assuming he's still working there) .... can have a tendency to be somewhat grumpy and unwilling to give you the time of day. (my own personal impression of course, you may come to a different conclusion ! .... )

Also, they have a slightly unusual circuit (NIMBY avoidance and non-standard overhead join) .... but it doesn't take much getting used to, and is good training for later PPL life ! Their circuit can also get very busy in the summer ...

Putting Jon to one side however, I would have absolutley no hesitation in recommending them for training. Infact I would suggest they are probably one of the best places you can go near London (which is one additional benefit, they are the closest you'll get to busy airspace - before you experienced flyers jump in, yes I know there are one or two even closer to class A airspace, but Wycombe is close without being too close, good for PPL training ).

Edit to add :

Three yellows ...

1) Those trial lessons all count towards your PPL

They only count towards your PPL if you're actually learning something useful, otherwise the only thing the trial lessons will contribute towards your PPL is the cost !