Air Parks
Join Date: Oct 2005
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I was reading the in 'Today's Pilot' about one of the air parks in Florida and wondered what people's experience was. ie I was idly thinking, whow that would be great, should I save my pennies and retire to the US or is the reality a bit different? What about serving of the aircraft etc.
Anyway, has anyone got any real life experience?
Cheers,
C23
sorry to shatter your dream, UK citizens cannot retire to the US
90 days only, then out you go, even if, you have brought a new house
new car, new aircraft, have private health, and your pension is paid into
a US bank, tough, also stay 91 days, and you never ever get back in
Bizzare isn't it, the land of the free !
Obviously all waved if your a multi millionaire,
Anyway, has anyone got any real life experience?
Cheers,
C23
sorry to shatter your dream, UK citizens cannot retire to the US
90 days only, then out you go, even if, you have brought a new house
new car, new aircraft, have private health, and your pension is paid into
a US bank, tough, also stay 91 days, and you never ever get back in
Bizzare isn't it, the land of the free !
Obviously all waved if your a multi millionaire,
Join Date: Jun 2003
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How much $$$ do you need? Most retiring-to-Spain British builders are worth £1M now; that's $2M.
I actually looked at the Spanish airpark a few years back. They were selling plots from £100k and house building options from £100k, so £200k to get in.
But when one thinks hard about this.... why? If you love flying, what you really want is an airfield nearby, but not the noise of planes taxiing literally past your house.
An airpark would be ideal for a residential flying school and the Murcia one was set up to support that. Almost nobody will be really living in that area.
Otherwise, you buy a house for the usual reason: a reasonable house in a nice location (not in some barren part of Spain). The French air parks tend to meet that requirement. In the UK, getting planning would be very hard in any nice location. A helicopter parked in the grounds of a big house is the only way to do that.
In terms of frequent business travel, very few people have the travel profile that would fit fixed wing in Europe. Those that need to travel by air a lot use a helicopter. Europe has killed off GA utility, with a hard IR, lack of IAPs, lack of airfields, etc.
I actually looked at the Spanish airpark a few years back. They were selling plots from £100k and house building options from £100k, so £200k to get in.
But when one thinks hard about this.... why? If you love flying, what you really want is an airfield nearby, but not the noise of planes taxiing literally past your house.
An airpark would be ideal for a residential flying school and the Murcia one was set up to support that. Almost nobody will be really living in that area.
Otherwise, you buy a house for the usual reason: a reasonable house in a nice location (not in some barren part of Spain). The French air parks tend to meet that requirement. In the UK, getting planning would be very hard in any nice location. A helicopter parked in the grounds of a big house is the only way to do that.
In terms of frequent business travel, very few people have the travel profile that would fit fixed wing in Europe. Those that need to travel by air a lot use a helicopter. Europe has killed off GA utility, with a hard IR, lack of IAPs, lack of airfields, etc.
Join Date: Feb 2006
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House and hangar
Glad that you agree that the best way to go is to have a house near to an airfield....
I have a 3 bedroom house for sale in France 10 minutes drive from a private airfield where the buyer can hangar their aircraft for £570 per annum.
The house is located in tranquil countryside with a trout stream and 1.25 acre paddock for horses if required.
email me for details.
I have a 3 bedroom house for sale in France 10 minutes drive from a private airfield where the buyer can hangar their aircraft for £570 per annum.
The house is located in tranquil countryside with a trout stream and 1.25 acre paddock for horses if required.
email me for details.
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Here's an airpark in Siljansnäs,Sweden: http://www.siljanairpark.se
40 plots, all initally sold, now 1 or 2 for sale by owners who have changed their minds. Great international flavor too - check the flags on the plot map: http://www.siljanairpark.se/eng/plots.asp
40 plots, all initally sold, now 1 or 2 for sale by owners who have changed their minds. Great international flavor too - check the flags on the plot map: http://www.siljanairpark.se/eng/plots.asp
Join Date: Apr 2012
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Hi,
Having discussed the possibility of an Airpark in the UK during this topic, I wonder if anyone would be so kind as to fill out this questionnaire on an Airpark within the UK. We would be looking at developing the first Residential Airpark in the UK, but before we invest we need to make sure that:
a) There is a demand for the Airpark lifestyle
b) That if there is we develop a suitable Airpark.
http://www.wallaceairpark.co.uk/Wall...tionnaire.docx
I am going to spend my life trying to get an Airpark in the UK so hopefully I will prove a lot of you wrong!
Thanks,
Oliver
--------------------------------------------------
Trying to build the first Residential Airpark in the UK:
Wallace Airpark
Having discussed the possibility of an Airpark in the UK during this topic, I wonder if anyone would be so kind as to fill out this questionnaire on an Airpark within the UK. We would be looking at developing the first Residential Airpark in the UK, but before we invest we need to make sure that:
a) There is a demand for the Airpark lifestyle
b) That if there is we develop a suitable Airpark.
http://www.wallaceairpark.co.uk/Wall...tionnaire.docx
I am going to spend my life trying to get an Airpark in the UK so hopefully I will prove a lot of you wrong!
Thanks,
Oliver
--------------------------------------------------
Trying to build the first Residential Airpark in the UK:
Wallace Airpark
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lancashire & Florida
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Lots of Airparks in Florida, I have a friend with a home on one.He says the only regret they have is not buying a home there sooner...
Runway is well clear of the homes, taxing out to the ramp area/runway is by way of the residential area so care is needed when heading back to or from your home, most hangar their aircraft in the oversized garages attached to the homes.
They are gated communities so slim chance of meeting anyone who is not supposed to be there as you taxi along the street, they also have a golf buggy that can be used by any of the residents for safety to go ahead of you as you taxi back.
Central clubhouse for socialising with fellow aviators.
As for aircraft servicing, some have mechanics come out to do basic stuff like oil changes,brake pads, tyre replacement ect. if anything more that requires a workshop visit, then you are never more than a few miles from one, you can fly over get someone to drive you back or in many cases one of your fellow airpark residents will fly over to the airport in their plane and bring you back.
Runway is well clear of the homes, taxing out to the ramp area/runway is by way of the residential area so care is needed when heading back to or from your home, most hangar their aircraft in the oversized garages attached to the homes.
They are gated communities so slim chance of meeting anyone who is not supposed to be there as you taxi along the street, they also have a golf buggy that can be used by any of the residents for safety to go ahead of you as you taxi back.
Central clubhouse for socialising with fellow aviators.
As for aircraft servicing, some have mechanics come out to do basic stuff like oil changes,brake pads, tyre replacement ect. if anything more that requires a workshop visit, then you are never more than a few miles from one, you can fly over get someone to drive you back or in many cases one of your fellow airpark residents will fly over to the airport in their plane and bring you back.
Join Date: Jul 2004
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in France :
Infos pratiques | ASL Vendée Air Park
Village Aéronautique des Lacs de Biscarrosse
Air Park prés du Touquet Paris Plage | 1er Airpark ou village aeronautique comprenant tous les services et complexe aquatique prés du Touquet
Green Airpark - Aeronautique village - A special place
Bienvenue
Dinair village aronautique
Infos pratiques | ASL Vendée Air Park
Village Aéronautique des Lacs de Biscarrosse
Air Park prés du Touquet Paris Plage | 1er Airpark ou village aeronautique comprenant tous les services et complexe aquatique prés du Touquet
Green Airpark - Aeronautique village - A special place
Bienvenue
Dinair village aronautique
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Good luck with the project Oliver.
Without wishing to appear 'picky', I did just have a peruse of your website, and have come away with a few concerns. Firstly, half of the pages on it seem to be U/S.
Secondly, whilst your biography page seems very impressive (far more impressive than mine) there seem to be a few inconsistencies with the dates which look like typo's;
For example-
Born:
13 August 1985; British national.
Professional:
- Admitted as a barrister, Middle Temple, 1973
As I say, good luck with the project.
Without wishing to appear 'picky', I did just have a peruse of your website, and have come away with a few concerns. Firstly, half of the pages on it seem to be U/S.
Secondly, whilst your biography page seems very impressive (far more impressive than mine) there seem to be a few inconsistencies with the dates which look like typo's;
For example-
Born:
13 August 1985; British national.
Professional:
- Admitted as a barrister, Middle Temple, 1973
As I say, good luck with the project.
Join Date: Jan 2012
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@tangovictor.
You are half right and half wrong Sir in regard retiring to the USA.
yes on a normal visa waiver permit (ESTA) it is a maximum of 90 days per visit.
But you can apply for a residents visa which is renewable annually, you don't have to be a multimillionaire to be accepted, but you do need to prove you have sufficient funds to live unassisted in the US without the need to seek employment. And decent medical cover is a must, because if you need any serious medical work and can't pay they will take your house, car and shirt off your back....
We have a home in Florida, and we visit 4 times a year for stays of 5/6 weeks each trip, although not fully retired yet, it is our intention that once I have called it a day we will retire there. I have already met with an immigration lawyer to work out the details to make sure when the time comes we comply with the resident visa requirements.
You are half right and half wrong Sir in regard retiring to the USA.
yes on a normal visa waiver permit (ESTA) it is a maximum of 90 days per visit.
But you can apply for a residents visa which is renewable annually, you don't have to be a multimillionaire to be accepted, but you do need to prove you have sufficient funds to live unassisted in the US without the need to seek employment. And decent medical cover is a must, because if you need any serious medical work and can't pay they will take your house, car and shirt off your back....
We have a home in Florida, and we visit 4 times a year for stays of 5/6 weeks each trip, although not fully retired yet, it is our intention that once I have called it a day we will retire there. I have already met with an immigration lawyer to work out the details to make sure when the time comes we comply with the resident visa requirements.
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Yes, apologies on the website, it's just a stop-gap site at the moment.
I'm just very impatient and want to get this going asap!
A fully personal website is currently in progress and will be launched within the next few days.
I'm just very impatient and want to get this going asap!
A fully personal website is currently in progress and will be launched within the next few days.
Join Date: Jan 2008
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I'm sorry, but a UK Airpark is doomed to failure.
Planning - Anywhere there's a big-enough chunk of land, that's cheap -enough to make both airfield AND house-costs stack-up, is
1 - going to be where insufficient numbers of Aviators are prepared to live
2 -going to be vetoed by a Local Authority who, on any non-greenbelt site, will be looking to maximise the rate-revenue and minimise the liabilities.
what makes you think they'd be happy with low-density, lots of Tarmac and streetlights,drainage, noise-complaints /monitoring. pressure on upgrade to local fire-service.....etc.
Alternatively, once a site is earmarked for development, cram as many breeding-boxes in to it, at as high a rate-revenue per unit as they can get ,plus invariably get the developer to cough a goodly chunk or all the cost of roads, sewers etc. which the Authority only adopt when the cash-stream is flowing.
Sorry, the pilot-count in UK is too low, the land-value too high...and most Microlight and LAA types would not afford or be willing to live in the back of beyond where the figures just MIGHT stack.
* Dons flame-resistant overalls and ducks *
Planning - Anywhere there's a big-enough chunk of land, that's cheap -enough to make both airfield AND house-costs stack-up, is
1 - going to be where insufficient numbers of Aviators are prepared to live
2 -going to be vetoed by a Local Authority who, on any non-greenbelt site, will be looking to maximise the rate-revenue and minimise the liabilities.
what makes you think they'd be happy with low-density, lots of Tarmac and streetlights,drainage, noise-complaints /monitoring. pressure on upgrade to local fire-service.....etc.
Alternatively, once a site is earmarked for development, cram as many breeding-boxes in to it, at as high a rate-revenue per unit as they can get ,plus invariably get the developer to cough a goodly chunk or all the cost of roads, sewers etc. which the Authority only adopt when the cash-stream is flowing.
Sorry, the pilot-count in UK is too low, the land-value too high...and most Microlight and LAA types would not afford or be willing to live in the back of beyond where the figures just MIGHT stack.
* Dons flame-resistant overalls and ducks *
Cockney Steve
I fear you are right, but maybe, just maybe.......
The second home market has been a real success - these are homes that have to be vacated for one month a year so people have other houses. They are based mostly on lakes. I think a lot of more affluent aviators (sorry guys but this is going to cost!!!) living especially in London and other cities might well go with a second home concept where they can fly from their front door. Noise is not the main issue, nor going by the current market is cost. Given the number of abandoned airfields all you have to sort is capital and nimbyism
I fear you are right, but maybe, just maybe.......
The second home market has been a real success - these are homes that have to be vacated for one month a year so people have other houses. They are based mostly on lakes. I think a lot of more affluent aviators (sorry guys but this is going to cost!!!) living especially in London and other cities might well go with a second home concept where they can fly from their front door. Noise is not the main issue, nor going by the current market is cost. Given the number of abandoned airfields all you have to sort is capital and nimbyism
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In Europe there are several residential Airparks Europe..mostly in France but also in Sweden, Germany, Portugal, Eastern Europe and one being developed in Turkey...The Spanish one in Murcia has a huge hard runway but only 2 houses and one of those is now derelict.
Helicopter instructor & Ryanair pilot Tony Corr developed an Airpark on the French side of the Pyrenees at Mingot near Rabastens and he was partially responsible for my interest in researching about airparks.
My recent MSc dissertation "European Residential Airparks in the context of local sustainable rural development" looked at the environmental, social and economic impacts that an Airpark could/would/does have on neighbouring local communities.
Research findings concluded there were/are social and both short and long term economic benefits and even some beneficial environmental impacts from GA, for communities that have a residential airpark in their vicinity.
I met some fantastic people living on some of these European Airparks, and who I am lucky to now call friends. I also got to fly in some super planes and spend an hour doing T&G's on Lake Biscarrosse in an amphibian Piper Cub.
There have so far been 3 UK airpark planning applications that have already failed. But my findings were helpful to Gravity Park (Belgium's 1st Airpark)in gaining planning permission. So who knows may help to establish one here too.
I am also a PPL(A) and currently fly a C150 out of Gloucestershire Airport (EGBJ).
Helicopter instructor & Ryanair pilot Tony Corr developed an Airpark on the French side of the Pyrenees at Mingot near Rabastens and he was partially responsible for my interest in researching about airparks.
My recent MSc dissertation "European Residential Airparks in the context of local sustainable rural development" looked at the environmental, social and economic impacts that an Airpark could/would/does have on neighbouring local communities.
Research findings concluded there were/are social and both short and long term economic benefits and even some beneficial environmental impacts from GA, for communities that have a residential airpark in their vicinity.
I met some fantastic people living on some of these European Airparks, and who I am lucky to now call friends. I also got to fly in some super planes and spend an hour doing T&G's on Lake Biscarrosse in an amphibian Piper Cub.
There have so far been 3 UK airpark planning applications that have already failed. But my findings were helpful to Gravity Park (Belgium's 1st Airpark)in gaining planning permission. So who knows may help to establish one here too.
I am also a PPL(A) and currently fly a C150 out of Gloucestershire Airport (EGBJ).
Last edited by Jude098; 29th May 2013 at 00:34.
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@ Homonculus
So, apart from reservoirs, we have "The Lake District" Nimbyism and the planning difficulties aside, It's a bit of a bloody drag to get there......unless you live in the affluent S.E. England and have your own private airstrip 
The difficulty with this country is primarily one of population -density ,which leads to high land values...even pure agricultural land is ridiculously expensive...but as soon as any sort of planning approval is granted, it goes stratospheric.
First you need a co-operative Local Authority*
Then you need the land that nobody else wants ( why's that????)
Then you need enough Aviators with enough cash with enough commitment to want a second (or primary) residence in this god-forsaken spot, purely because it's got a runway outside the door.
I know we English are a *bit* eccentric, but you're really stretching things here.
IF I won the lottery, I'd consider it. As it is, i'd need a stunning bargain to make a small house and a Microlight/Laa type as a viable option.....and i no longer have to work!
* Is there any Local Authority in the UK that's not so cash-strapped that it's not going to wring wvery last penny of rates-revenue from a development-site? (consider how many breeding-boxes will fit on your proposed airstrip, multiply by,say, £1200 potential rates....do the same with all the other undeveloped land on your Airpark,......now divide that into the houses you actually build (and they'll pay their own rates as well.
Cheaper to buy a small ,existing airfield as a cooperative and then buy a house for each member from the local NIMBY populace.
I'm quite surprised nobody's done this before......My sister had a bungalow one street back from White Waltham, where her partner had spent time on Military service, (100 yard stroll and jump the fence!
)
They are based mostly on lakes.
The difficulty with this country is primarily one of population -density ,which leads to high land values...even pure agricultural land is ridiculously expensive...but as soon as any sort of planning approval is granted, it goes stratospheric.
First you need a co-operative Local Authority*
Then you need the land that nobody else wants ( why's that????)
Then you need enough Aviators with enough cash with enough commitment to want a second (or primary) residence in this god-forsaken spot, purely because it's got a runway outside the door.
I know we English are a *bit* eccentric, but you're really stretching things here.
IF I won the lottery, I'd consider it. As it is, i'd need a stunning bargain to make a small house and a Microlight/Laa type as a viable option.....and i no longer have to work!
* Is there any Local Authority in the UK that's not so cash-strapped that it's not going to wring wvery last penny of rates-revenue from a development-site? (consider how many breeding-boxes will fit on your proposed airstrip, multiply by,say, £1200 potential rates....do the same with all the other undeveloped land on your Airpark,......now divide that into the houses you actually build (and they'll pay their own rates as well.
Cheaper to buy a small ,existing airfield as a cooperative and then buy a house for each member from the local NIMBY populace.
I'm quite surprised nobody's done this before......My sister had a bungalow one street back from White Waltham, where her partner had spent time on Military service, (100 yard stroll and jump the fence!
)
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Wsmempson, You are absolutely correct, I was just too eager to get out into the forums and see what people want that the website even though updated on the server wasn’t published and still had the temporary website in place, for that I can only apologise.
BabyBear, The apologies are for not being professional enough to wait until the website update was done. Like most of the people on here, when it comes to aviation I have maybe a little too much enthusiasm!
Cockney Steve, you may well be right, but you can never know for sure which is why I will continue unwaivering!
The issue regarding land isn’t really in the creation of an airpark on derelict land, there are so many airfields both military and private that have been up for sale recently and we are losing them to other industries. That is where an Airpark is ideal as the change in status of the land is minimal in terms of planning permission.
I think with the right location (and hence council) it can work.
Haha, I have seen the photos of Bernard Matthews breeding-boxes along derelict runways and it really makes me angry (and maybe a little hungry) that we (as in Aviators) are losing our airfields to these businesses, we need to fight harder to keep them.
Regarding the pilot count, we have a lot of people from other countries that want to live in the UK, not many pilots proportionally though… with an Airpark I would envisage demand not only from UK based pilots but also from overseas. The UK is so ahead of other countries in so many areas apart from GA and it’s time for a change.
homonculus , you are so correct about the number of abandoned airfields, I have noted all of these and will begin to approach local councils once I have the funds to apply for initial planning consent at each of these! Yes, investing my own money in UK GA… crazy, but someone has to do it!
I want to be able to say how great GA in the UK is compared to other countries and with the innovation and connectivity that we have here, the Airparks could be the best in the world!
BabyBear, The apologies are for not being professional enough to wait until the website update was done. Like most of the people on here, when it comes to aviation I have maybe a little too much enthusiasm!
Cockney Steve, you may well be right, but you can never know for sure which is why I will continue unwaivering!
The issue regarding land isn’t really in the creation of an airpark on derelict land, there are so many airfields both military and private that have been up for sale recently and we are losing them to other industries. That is where an Airpark is ideal as the change in status of the land is minimal in terms of planning permission.
I think with the right location (and hence council) it can work.
Haha, I have seen the photos of Bernard Matthews breeding-boxes along derelict runways and it really makes me angry (and maybe a little hungry) that we (as in Aviators) are losing our airfields to these businesses, we need to fight harder to keep them.
Regarding the pilot count, we have a lot of people from other countries that want to live in the UK, not many pilots proportionally though… with an Airpark I would envisage demand not only from UK based pilots but also from overseas. The UK is so ahead of other countries in so many areas apart from GA and it’s time for a change.
homonculus , you are so correct about the number of abandoned airfields, I have noted all of these and will begin to approach local councils once I have the funds to apply for initial planning consent at each of these! Yes, investing my own money in UK GA… crazy, but someone has to do it!
I want to be able to say how great GA in the UK is compared to other countries and with the innovation and connectivity that we have here, the Airparks could be the best in the world!
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Oliver. You are an immature boy who's too busy dreaming and not paying enough attention to detail.
This is the UK where over 95% of the general aviation community is old and grumpy. And nobody here has a can-do attitude.
Go elsewhere to pursue your dream.
This is the UK where over 95% of the general aviation community is old and grumpy. And nobody here has a can-do attitude.
Go elsewhere to pursue your dream.
Last edited by soaringhigh650; 29th May 2013 at 17:24.
Blimey - that's a bit negative!
Good luck with it - better to have tried and failed than to have never tried at all...
Been to Siljan air park last year, and back there again next week.
Also have a friend with a place on 'Atlantic Air Park" - which is particularly well planned in that the houses are set some way away from the strip.
Still, if I wanted to park my plane at my house (and I do, but can't) - I would just buy a house and the field (+/- 500m long, grassy and flat) next to it...
Cheers, Sam.
Good luck with it - better to have tried and failed than to have never tried at all...
Been to Siljan air park last year, and back there again next week.
Also have a friend with a place on 'Atlantic Air Park" - which is particularly well planned in that the houses are set some way away from the strip.
Still, if I wanted to park my plane at my house (and I do, but can't) - I would just buy a house and the field (+/- 500m long, grassy and flat) next to it...
Cheers, Sam.